Author Topic: DSND files from Addictive Drums  (Read 16541 times)

Louis

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DSND files from Addictive Drums
« on: May 23, 2012, 09:11:39 PM »
digitalDrummer has written a guide on how to create DSND files from Addictive Drums (thanks a lot!). You can find it here: http://www.shortestpath.se/dsoundtool/manual/addictive.html

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2012, 09:15:22 PM »
excellent work to both of you. what troubles me a bit is that we use many different host programs (live, cubase, reaper etc) and i wonder how much different these settings will be in the host i use for example. anyway ill give it a try and thank you all for another great tutorial

digitalDrummer

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2012, 09:35:10 PM »
The guide is really more about Reaper than AD. In essence, if you're using Reaper as a host, it's pretty much the same process for any VST. So, you could use SD, BFD, etc - it's almost a generic approach.
I'm far from  a Reaper expert - been using it for a couple of weeks, but I followed the logic of the two other step-by-step guides for SD and BFD - and it seems to work well.
And Reaper has a free trial offer - fully functional. And it's very reasonably priced when you want to buy.
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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2012, 10:20:44 PM »
well to be honest it took me ages to learn ableton live. i am not a fast learner. and still i have troubles with bfd dsnds (they will be solved soon with the videos of brian etc). ill try to make similar things to live, using your guide alan. but first things first, ill learn bfd. once i am done, ill post agin here. thank you for a terrific job

Jovato

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 02:59:47 AM »
I just made a couple of cymbals from Addictive Drums.  Many thanks for the great Dsoundtool.  I use a Mac, so Reaper isn't an option.  I just thought I'd share that Plogue Bidule works amazingly well for this purpase (and about anything else you can think of). 

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 03:14:26 AM »
I use a Mac, so Reaper isn't an option. 
Why?? Reaper works perfectly on Mac.
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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 04:28:17 PM »
Doh, I guess I'm showing my age.  For some reason I thought Reaper was still Windows exclusive.  Thanks for straightening me out.  I have discovered that samples made from Addictive Drums trigger more reliably when they have fewer layers.  When I recorded them with 24 layers, I got weird spikes at the upper end of the volume spectrum and a lack of dynamics in the middle.  When I cut them to 15 layers I get a nice linear response curve.  I know Addictive only has 12-15 layers anyway and the rest are horizontal samples.  I'm wondering if there is something loopy about how the horizontal samples come accross when you make a DSND.  Has anybody else noticed this?  Another thing I noticed is that the dsnds I made only allow the pitch to be adjusted down in the module.  Up was simply not an option.  Is this standard?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 05:08:24 PM by Jovato »

Jovato

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 11:24:29 PM »
Okay.  I think I've figured this out- at least for snare drums.  The magic number for layers when sampling Addictive Drums seems to be 16.  However, this isn't entirely straight forward.  First, you use Dsoundtool to create a .dsnd file with 15 layers.  This provides for a great natural dynamic range- with one caveat.  If you are using the variable setting on the 2Box, your loudest hit will get switched out about every third strike with the next loudest sample.  On a tom this isn't a problem- it sounds good.  On a snare drum you need to be able to reliably generate that maximum top velocity for a two and four back beat- and for reliable rimshots.  So, you need to crack open the DSND file you made and clone the loudest layer.  Then rename all the layers (adjusted up by one)  This means the loudest 2 layers are identical (they are just numberd 0 and 1).  This still provides for a great dynamic range with nice variabilty throughout the spectrum.  The only difference is that you can be assured of the maximum crack every time you need it.  Otherwise it just sort of jumps out every third strike.  I have tried adding more layers from here, and it only hurts the dynamic range.   The top gets bunched up and the middle velocities are flat.  I'm sure, this is because AD only has 12-15 velocity layers to begin with.  I will have to see how things work if you have an instrument that is sampled more deeply.  My first pass at sampling a snare in BFD ECO didn't yield satisfactory results.  The sound was fine, but the velocity mapping was terrible.  I need to do real work now.  I needed to do it yesterday.  This weekend, I hope to experiment with cymbals.  I will say that once you get a sample right, you can expect a spontanious ear to ear grin.  It is just too cool to be able to get exactly the sound you are looking for.  All of this has also made me really respect the original sampling that the folks at 2box did.  The original samples sound great next to VSTs.  The only reason to look beyond the module is because you want a specific sound.

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 02:38:03 AM »
There is a choice in the module for Layer:
Variable, Fixed or Top, by default it is set to Variable .... this is what it does:
- Variable, a certain trigger level will start a semi-random layer as
long as it is close to the trigger level.
- Fixed, a certain trigger level will always start the same layer which
best matches the trigger level.
- Top, any trigger level will start the top most layer.
In all 3 cases, the layer level will be as the trigger level.

I have reset mine to Fixed on the kits I've built from VSTs ... especially if there are plenty of layers, samples, a lot of variation ... that way you end up with less surprises on the way the dsnd plays IMO.
Something you can experiment with anyway.

But in the case of using a small no of samples like 16 your method plus leaving variable on in the module is probably good to keep from too much of the machine gun ....

When you get into some instruments in other VSTs that have a larger no. of samples/variables I think it works fine to set to Fixed.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 02:47:21 AM by Jman »
I could tell you where to stick that piezo! :D ;)
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Jovato

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 03:49:44 AM »
Makes perfect sense.  I had somewhat come to this conclusion, myself- That I would use more sample layers and set the module to Fixed when I was sampling an entire kit.  However, I wanted to be able to just drop these snares into kits with the existing toms (which I think definitely benefit from the Variable setting).  I'm curious what others are doing with Addictive Drums and what results they are getting.  I have to admit I'm quite pleased.  With 15 true velocity layers per zone, these samples sound and respond great (and they are not very large file sizes).  Since the intent is for live play, these cut through quite nicely.  Maybe I'll post a link to them and others can tell me if they suck or where they could be improved upon. 

I have the original BFD Jazz'n'Funk files on a hard drive.  Some of those drums are over a hundred layers deep.  I would just have to reload BFD 1.5 as I don't have BFD 2.  I have been using BFD Eco for live play since it has such a light footprint.

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 04:02:32 AM »
Also, I'm wondering if anyone has any input on the pitch issue I discussed here.
http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1642.0


fishmonkey

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 02:03:09 AM »
two other things about layers. firstly, you will find that most sample libraries will not have a linear sampling, they will tend to have more layers clustered around the most used part of the dynamic range. the second thing is that most drum sampling programs will do some kind of volume scaling to interpolate between layers.

Jovato

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2013, 05:01:21 PM »
Understood.  Again, I'm curious how others are sampling AD and how they like what they are getting.  Too me, the few AD samples I have made match up well with the stock 2box toms and lend themselves to live play. 

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2013, 11:47:08 AM »
AD only has ONE LAYER!  >:(

I fiddled around with it, and after trying the same method as I mentioned here http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1197.msg11629#msg11629 I came to notice that ALL samples are the same! Tried with just a 10" tom.

fishmonkey

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Re: DSND files from Addictive Drums
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2013, 12:45:32 PM »
i don't have AD, but there is no way that it can be one layer only.