Some thoughts

[Slap the drummer]

Some thoughts on the Kick Drum Experiment - see post with that name.

More than 150 views and no responses?  Come on.

Look into your hearts people.  Real drummers help other drummers out.  So why not
help BA and the others who have or will have the same problem in the future?

All you've been asked to do is something that is very easy and will take 2 or 3 mins at most.
Also, it will cost you nothing and it won't harm you in any way.

It won't solve the problem directly but it will be a big step in the right direction.

If you can't be arsed then fair enough, but if that's the case why join a forum like this in
the first place?

[edcito]

Patience man, not everyone is sitting in front of the computer waiting for a new thread to pop up (trolls excepted)
We have normal lifes, work, other worries, so hang on there and I'm sure some answers will start to come....

[BURNIN AMBITION]

thank you once again for all the help and the efforts. all of you. fortunately as i stated in the other thread, i am getting a anew sensor.
regardless of that, it would be awesome if a lot of people answered about it as we would have an idea what happens in general with the kick pad. remember that many people had issues with it!!!!

once again thanks to the great community

[Evy]

Also, not all of us have MK2 kick drums as requested in the experiment.

[Jman]

thank you once again for all the help and the efforts. all of you. fortunately as i stated in the other thread, i am getting a anew sensor.
regardless of that, it would be awesome if a lot of people answered about it as we would have an idea what happens in general with the kick pad. remember that many people had issues with it!!!!

once again thanks to the great community

I have the MKI kick ... since I build my own Edrums and am using all my own stuff I only tested out all the pads from the kit really.... check how they perform, etc .... Turned out the kick had problems with not triggering properly... hit or miss .... mainly miss. Since I build my own Edrums ... I opened it up, removed the piezo and replaced it. Very easy actually DIY 101. The kick performs excellent now ... Piezos are pretty delicate, and they don't always just Stop Working .... many times they will double trigger, work for most hits, miss hits... Or the sensitivity will have to be set very high to get response. I'm not recommending that people violate their warranties, but there isn't much to a single zone drum, one piezo, wires, a jack and some foam is basically all that is involved to the trigger and a little solder skill. It took me about 10 minutes to fix that kick from start to finish. I replaced the piezo in mine since I have a hundred or so on hand, but sometimes just soldering a broken lead wire is all that is needed.

[Baby Samus]

Some thoughts on the Kick Drum Experiment - see post with that name.

More than 150 views and no responses?  Come on.

Look into your hearts people.  Real drummers help other drummers out.  So why not
help BA and the others who have or will have the same problem in the future?

All you've been asked to do is something that is very easy and will take 2 or 3 mins at most.
Also, it will cost you nothing and it won't harm you in any way.

I think the lack of responses is because:

a)  Burnin is getting a new module and sensor, so his problem is pretty much resolved.
b)  In my opinion, these problems are nothing to do with the kind of mesh people are using.  The only aspect of the mesh that affects triggering is its guage or thickness, and that is just a matter of tightening it correctly.  I say this because I use three different thickness of mesh on my 2Box, and they all trigger fine.  I have also used 2 types of mesh on my bass drum, as well as a snare batter head!  Again, they all worked fine.
c)  The MKII kick pad is owned by many, and the majority of users have it working fine without any additional padding.  I have it and the only addition required was a rubber bass drum beater and a protection dot for the mesh.  The triggering itself is fine.
d)  The only difference I can see between the two versions is MKI has padding and a central sensor postition, whilst the MKII has no padding and the same sensor placement as the pads.  I have owned both - the sensors are identical, and the only difference I can see is that I had to change the velocity curve to pos1 rather than normal, and upped the gain from 0 to 2, but that is down to trigger placement.  Aside from these small changes, the triggering is very similar.
e)  I can perform quick bass drum doubles without any issue on my MKII pad, as I could on my MKI pad with different heads - so given that they were working correctly, I would suggest the problems you are describing are far more likely to come from module settings/sensor/sensor placement/wiring issues, as I said on Burnin's post.

Sorry man I'm not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but if Burnin's distributor is sending him a new sensor and module, then those are most likely at fault, not the mesh head.

[Slap the drummer]

Thank you Baby Samus - that's the sort of response that was being looked for - well, almost.

But obviously nobody is really getting what I'm banging on about, so let me try a different tack.

In the bad old days, Drummer X bought his 2box and found it worked ok, but he got double
triggers on his kick drum.  He tried everything but they wdn't go away.  He kept asking on
the forum for help, and people kept saying tinker with this adjustment and tinker with that.
Nothing works.  But Drummer X is stuck.  He's afraid to return the kick as faulty because
he doesn't know for sure that it is.  It has even been suggested his technique is at fault.
So he covers up the problem as best he can, slacking the head off, raising the threshold,
blah blah.  In time he learns to live with it.  But at night he has nightmares.  He's on stage
with Status Quo, everybody's cheering, girls are swooning.  But then the kick drum starts
going bananas, the band keep looking back at him and frowning (badly), the girls stop
throwing their knickers and switch to bottles.  He wakes up sweating.

But then people do this experiment like they've been asked to, and 30 people write back and say
- "Man, even with curve = Max2, no way can I get a two bar press roll out of my kick drum.
Three or four beats maybe with a single stroke, but no more".  So now when someone has a
problem like X had they can say to themselves, well now I know for sure that my kick drum
is faulty - BECAUSE my drum is NOTHING like what these other people have.  With my
kick drum I only have to look at the fuck*r and I get a beat.  He says - "Whoah, this drum
is faulty.  I'm sending it back, no question in my mind at all".

The End.

Now do you see what I'm trying to get at.  Believe me if you've had a go on one of these
faulty ones you'll know what I'm talking about.  And that's why I'm asking people to post
the fact that they DO NOT have problems...... so others in the future can get a handle on
what a properly functioning kick is like.  Makes good sense, yeah?

I don't have any desire to argue whether the sensor or the mesh is the problem, and I don't
even care.  I only say the mesh because I could find no fault with my sensor, no dry wiring
etc, (and if anything it was too quiet and hard to stimulate), but what I could see clearly
under test conditions was the mesh vibrating like a guitar string.  As I say, when you've
seen one in action you will know that tuning is not the answer.  But yes, it may more
likely be the sensor.  I know next to nothing about this technology so I can only go by the
little common sense that I gots.  Be interesting to know if and what could make a sensor literally
resonate when triggered.

Anyway, that's by the by.  The key thing is that BA has stopped hesitating about faulting
his kick and he's sending it back (where it belongs by the sound of it).  For the record, he had
asked for help several times and he wasn't getting anywhere.  And that's why I was thinking,
between us we ought to be able to sort this out once and for all.  (Or maybe, if you push any
properly working head to extremes with the Max2 curve you will get buzz strokes - but that is
still good for us all to know).

So thanks again, for taking the trouble to offer a decent response, appreciated.....
but now will you get behind your bl**dy kit and turn Max2 on like you were asked to 

And the rest of youse.

Cheers

[BURNIN AMBITION]

thank you slap, for thge response. you haveput you argument very well!!!
the truth is that because they were already replacing me my brain, i was afraid to bitch about my kick drum
i dint want people to think that i was making things up from my mind. that was until a greek guy that also had 2box told me that with mk1 version of kick and all foam in place , he would get a decent trigger.
i couldnt so i was sure i had a problem....

apart from my problem being eventually sorted out, i think that the experiment slap says, is something we should all do. i will do it once i get the new sensor back. so that we can hel[ the community in general!!!!

once again i have to say we are a great community and 2box aftersales service is awesome and we are here to stayand we rule and kick ass. that is all thank you

ps i am drunk

[Slap the drummer]

Hi BA - well it's all sorting itself out slowly.  Does sound like you've been very unlucky.  Hope that once
the new parts arrive it all comes together, no more problems.

Yeah, it's a tough call to know if there is a fault with something like a edrum kit.....

PS - DX wasn't supposed to be you by the way, just any old imaginary guy..... oh, except for the girls, and
the bottles, oh yes, and Status Quo, but everything else wasn't supposed to be you 

Best wishes

[Baby Samus]

Now do you see what I'm trying to get at.  Believe me if you've had a go on one of these
faulty ones you'll know what I'm talking about.  And that's why I'm asking people to post
the fact that they DO NOT have problems...... so others in the future can get a handle on
what a properly functioning kick is like.  Makes good sense, yeah?

Yes, I fully understand what you were trying to achieve and my MKI bass drum pad became faulty so I do indeed know what its like when its broken.  Point is, we already know the answer to the question 'what does a properly functioning and properly calibrated 2Box bass drum feel like or play like?'

The answer is, it should feel very similar to playing an accoustic bass drum, with no double triggering occuring.  Obviously the resistance and mass of the pad is different to a large bass drum, and the mesh responds a little different to a 22" bass drum head, but aside from that, they should feel very similar using the correctly weighted beater.  After properly configuring the gain and threshold, then applying a velocity curve, making sure the mesh head is properly seated and tightened as you would any drum, it should respond as you would expect the real thing to respond.  If you have a 2Box, thats the result everyone should expect from their bass drum pads using a rubber beater.

'Woah, wo, You're in the army - now' 

[Slap the drummer]

Yes, I fully understand what you were trying to achieve and my MKI bass drum pad became faulty so I do indeed know what its like when its broken.  Point is, we already know the answer to the question 'what does a properly functioning and properly calibrated 2Box bass drum feel like or play like?'
The answer is, it should feel very similar to playing an accoustic bass drum, with no double triggering occuring.

Point is, you're still not getting it at all.

Of course everybody with a functioning kick knows what it feels like, that's obvious.  But if you've never had an Edrum kit before --
and maybe you've never played an acoustic kick drum either -- then you won't know exactly what it feels like will you.  (And sometimes
in any case an acoustic kick may have a tendency to bounce and need careful setting up, but they're much more complicated than a
2box pad - but you might not know this and you might think you just somehow need to find the right set up for your faulty 2box drum.
And also, a mesh head does naturally have an extra tendency to bounce a little bit more than the real thing, and depending on your
playing style etc, you might have to learn to control this, even though your 2box is not faulty).

We're not all as knowledgeable as you Baby Samus.

It's a shame you had to carry on a debate instead of just helping - maybe it wd have started the ball rolling.
So let's just close the topic now, it's becoming clear that nobody is prepared to contribute anything more than reasons not to.

Makes no difference to me, I'm sorted - I just saw an opportunity to maybe try and help people further down the line.

[Baby Samus]

Point is, you're still not getting it at all.

Of course everybody with a functioning kick knows what it feels like, that's obvious.  But if you've never had an Edrum kit before --
and maybe you've never played an acoustic kick drum either -- then you won't know exactly what it feels like will you.  (And sometimes
in any case an acoustic kick may have a tendency to bounce and need careful setting up, but they're much more complicated than a
2box pad - but you might not know this and you might think you just somehow need to find the right set up for your faulty 2box drum.
And also, a mesh head does naturally have an extra tendency to bounce a little bit more than the real thing, and depending on your
playing style etc, you might have to learn to control this, even though your 2box is not faulty).

We're not all as knowledgeable as you Baby Samus.

It's a shame you had to carry on a debate instead of just helping - maybe it wd have started the ball rolling.
So let's just close the topic now, it's becoming clear that nobody is prepared to contribute anything more than reasons not to.

Makes no difference to me, I'm sorted - I just saw an opportunity to maybe try and help people further down the line.

Slap, I think you're taking this a bit personal mate.  I wasn't debating, just saying why I don't think the test is necessary any more. 

[Slap the drummer]

Slap, I think you're taking this a bit personal mate.  I wasn't debating, just saying why I don't think the test is necessary any more. 

Fair comment.  It's not a problem - if people don't agree with me that's fine.

[Evy]

Ok, I don't know anything about electronics and or fixing problems with edrums(haven't had any with my kit to speak of---knock on wood), and no I haven't done as you asked Slap.  School/Time/kids/hand injury are keeping me from playing.  But could the double trigger issue be caused by a contact point at the input of said bass drum?  Is the tip wobbling around or something?  The vibrating head theory seemed possible but then I guess we'd be seeing more of that in the toms as well no?
Sorry if I'm not helping...