Step-by-step: Configure line outputs for all instruments

[folke]

Hi there

Can I ask any kind person to guide me through the steps to achieve the following:

Using:
2Box Drummit Five
Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 (sound interface)
Reaper (DAW)

I would like to:
Be able to record each instrument (snare, kick, toms, cymbals...) build into the 2Box brain as a seperate track on Reaper as a live recording.
I've ben "down the midi-road" and perhaps i'll return to that again some day, but for now I would like to use the sounds of the 2Box brain.

I could choose to use the "standard" stereo mix output but that makes for very limited mixing/editing possiblities, so:

Is there anyone who can guide me through the menues in the 2Box brain to accomplish this?

It seems my first obstacle is to actually select a desired BUS and save it... Can't figure out the working of the knobs (sorry!)

THANK YOU so much in advance!

Kind regards
Folke (the home studio newbie)   

[welshsteve]

Just a quick reply here, if you're planning on recording kick, snare, toms and cymbals as one track each, that means each track will be mono.
You're gonna loose a hell of a lot of what makes these sounds great by mono-ing them up!
You really need to be looking at recording all of the above as stereo tracks. Fortunately this can be done on the drumit5 utilising the headphone out as channels 7+8
But if you want to record this way, you will need an 8 input interface though.

Unless you record the midi and then record each track separately per pass.
i.e.
Set up 4 stereo tracks in Reaper, record the take via midi, split the midi notes to their own channels in the daw (kick, snare, toms, cymbals) then record kick 1st pass, snare 2nd pass, toms 3rd pass, cymbals, 4th pass. You'll do this by soloing the midi channel, then recording onto a corresponding audio channel. I am not sure if this is making sense, I have tried to explain it as simply as I can.
As for how to do it on the module, I don't have one to hand to guide you but hopefully someone can chime in here and give you a step by step guide. It is easy though, I mean, once you know how!

[folke]

Hi welshsteve

Thank you so very much! It has been puzzling me, the thing about mono versus stereo in the 2BOX module.

I have so questions - hope it's ok:
1) If I understand you correctly, one should always assign two outs per trigger pad in order to get the full stereo experience..(?) If so, then how will I ever get 2 line-outs for both snare, kick, hats, tom 1, tom 2, tom 3 , cymbal 1 and cymbal 2? If i'm not mistaken this makes 16 line-outs... or are they all (the jacks on the backside) stereo each of them?

2) When you write "1st pass", "2nd pass" and so forth, du you then mean separate takes in Reaper?

I have the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 which only has 4 line inputs, so I looked at the Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 but that won't cut it either I guess. It has to be the Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 to accomplish this (if it should be that brand of course).

I think the build-in sounds of the module are quite good so that's why I'd like to go this way instead of letting Reaper generate the sound from midi input. At least it should be tried out I think.
3) Do you think i'd be better off the "midi way", then please let me know(?) But I've heard there should be some transpose/midi mapping issues between 2BOX and Reaper so that different triggers in 2BOX sends to the wrong sounds (maybe silence also).

I basically just want to be able to record into Reaper in a "live-playing-like"-situation ;-)

I hope you can find the patience and bear with a newbie like me :-/

Thanks again!

Cheers
Folke

[welshsteve]

Hi welshsteve

Thank you so very much! It has been puzzling me, the thing about mono versus stereo in the 2BOX module.

I have so questions - hope it's ok:
1) If I understand you correctly, one should always assign two outs per trigger pad in order to get the full stereo experience..(?) If so, then how will I ever get 2 line-outs for both snare, kick, hats, tom 1, tom 2, tom 3 , cymbal 1 and cymbal 2? If i'm not mistaken this makes 16 line-outs... or are they all (the jacks on the backside) stereo each of them?

You will not be able to like this, but 1 pair for kick, 1 pair for snare, 1 pair for toms and another pair for all the cymbals using the headphone out as outputs 7+8 

2) When you write "1st pass", "2nd pass" and so forth, du you then mean separate takes in Reaper?
Yes, record the midi, sort any edits to the playing (if you so should feel like) then, split the midi into tracks in reaper (very easy to do) solo which part of the kit you want to record 1st (Kick typically) by solo-ing THAT midi track, record using the stereo outs into the Scarlett. As you have 4 ins, you could speed this up by doing kick and snare at the same time, then toms and cymbals after. You'd either have to cable swap if you have it routed into 4 stereo pairs from the module though.
OR
If you have it routed like, kick/toms Snare/Cymbals using outs 1+2, 3+4. you'd only have to Solo the kick snare first time around, then Toms/Cymbals the 2nd time around

I can imagine this is sounding really daunting!

I have the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 which only has 4 line inputs, so I looked at the Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 but that won't cut it either I guess. It has to be the Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 to accomplish this (if it should be that brand of course).

I Guess so, I am not familiar with the whole Fucusrite line, but I know they're well respected. I used to have a Tascam 1642, they don't make it anymore but they do one similar and very well priced, if it's available in your territory that is!

One thing I have noticed with recording midi, if you're buffer is set high for audio purposes (like 1024mb) I have always found Midi delay. Reduced the buffer to 64mb or if your machine can handle it, 32mb.

Or, if you do need to keep the buffer high, remember to move your entire take forward a little on the Pianoroll. That also works.

This could be just an issue with Logic though, maybe with Reaper this isn't an issue. I haven't compared Logic to Reaper with the same gear to know for sure.

I think the build-in sounds of the module are quite good so that's why I'd like to go this way instead of letting Reaper generate the sound from midi input. At least it should be tried out I think.
3) Do you think i'd be better off the "midi way", then please let me know(?) But I've heard there should be some transpose/midi mapping issues between 2BOX and Reaper so that different triggers in 2BOX sends to the wrong sounds (maybe silence also).

If your gonna use Midi out and Midi into the Drumit5, no mapping will be needed as it's playing back into the module exactly what was put out.

I basically just want to be able to record into Reaper in a "live-playing-like"-situation ;-)

I hope you can find the patience and bear with a newbie like me :-/

No problem, I hope I managed to give some help!

Thanks again!

Cheers
Folke

[welshsteve]

One more thing... remember to pan the audio tracks if they're going in as separate mono channels. You probably can set up stereo audio tracks, so it won't be an issue if so. But, just in case they're going in as 2 mono channels for kick, 2 for snare, 2 for toms, 2 for cymbals.. remember to pan!

[folke]

Hi welshsteve!

It really is an enormous help that you provide! Even I seem to begin to grasp some of your points and ideas (which is quite an achievement in itself!)

So to line up the overall process and which unit does what in which step - I think I understand this:

1) Record midi into Reaper as one midi track.
No special cabling needed only midi cables.
No need to worry about mono, stereo, panning or other sound quality here.
Monitoring while recording could be from the 2box module itself

2) Playback single midi tracks (midi notes) via midi-out from Reaper and into midi-in of the module and (in real time!) record the modules 1+2, 3+4 line outs into audio tracks in Reaper..(?)
Is this really possible? Soloing different midi notes in same midi track and letting Reaper playback midi while recording audio? Sorry if I sound ... well.. overly amazed ;-) I'm just well amazed!

Is the above somewhat correctly understood?

And yes - you're right: it makes perfectly sence not having midi-mapping-issues when the midi generating unit and the midi playback unit is the very same ;-)

And welshsteve: You are a true hero and a very kind and helpful one a s well!

Best regards and cheers
Folke

[welshsteve]

Once you have recorded you midi, there's a function in Reaper (and most DAWs like Logic, Cubase etc) Called "split midi notes to individual tracks" or wording such like, search for a tutorial on YouTube for this using Reaper for absolute clarification.

now, you'll probably get more tracks than you'll need, as every individual note will have its own track!, which on a 5 piece kit with 2 crashes(with 2 zones + choke) , ride ( 3 zones plus choke), hihat... snare, toms etc will be a lot.

But you can merge them after... so you can decide which are "All cymbals" then merge them, "all toms" merge them, the 2/3 "snare" channels, Merge, giving you 4 midi channels of "kick" "snare" "toms" "cymbals"

in routing on the drumit5, have kick and toms assigned to outputs 1+2
Snare and Hihat/Cymbals to 3+4, connect these corresponding outs to 1, 2, 3 and 4 on the Scarlett interface. Be mindful of gain.

Create 2 stereo tracks in Reaper, Assign the audio input of 1st audio track as 1+2, 2nd Audio input 3+4

Solo Kick and Snare midi channels, record in realtime.

These two recorded tracks will be Kick and Snare

Create 2 more audio tracks using same inputs from Scarlett. (1+2, 3+4)

Solo, Toms and cymbal midi channels

Record in real time.

That's your toms and cymbal audio tracks.

If you want to have hi hat and ride on their own tracks. You'd have to not merge these with cymbals, but keep them on their own midi channels.

You can assign these outputs to 1+2, 3+4, and set up 2 more stereo audio tracks. do one more solo/record pass and that would give you hi hat and ride on their own audio tracks.

Yeah, its a bit of a mess about but with the limitations of your interface and the outputs of the drumit5 (which compared to other modules in its price bracket is still pretty good!) this is how you would get multiple audio tracks in a DAW to mix/process.

P.s. I am doing this from the top of my head so, I HOPE I have thought it out right!!!

[folke]

welshsteve, I don't know how to thank you!

I'll dive in to your very instructive top-of-head-list and hope for the best! Maybe a bit of a mess about as you state, but quite, quite clever circumstances and hardware taken into account.

THANK YOU !! :-D

- folke

[folke]

Hi welshsteve

Came to think that this approach - being somewhat fiddly - there is actually another great benefit form this in addidtion to isolating stereo signals. Keeping the midi track(s) you will always be able to change the sound of the same recording. Taht would not be possible with an "only audio tracks"-approach. :-D Of course you know that, but hey - I'm thrilled :-D

PS: Hope I got it right 

Thanks again!
- folke

[welshsteve]

Yeah you're quite right, I wouldn't necessarily commit the drum tracks to tape as it were until you're coming to the mix down process. But even then, if you keep the midi information on a track, you can still swap out a snare, kick, toms or whatever (or even layer it... now there's an idea!!!) easily at any point!

From personal experience, I have many times decided to change a kit sound later on in the recording for something I think works better. Many many times!

If you were using an acoustic drum it, then its not as easy. One of the many advantages to using e-drums over acoustic, that argument that often pops with the acoustic only people.

Ever notice you'll get acoustic players trying to tell you e-drums suck whether you ask their opinion or not, but never the other way around?