Author Topic: Double triggering, but different...  (Read 223 times)

Wilbo

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Double triggering, but different...
« on: January 08, 2021, 11:47:09 AM »
Hello all,
When I first got my bassdrum (a floortom converted into a bassdrum and with a Ddrum trigger on it) I had a problem with double triggering which I adjusted in the module with Threshold, Mask-time and Retrigger-cancel. I also dampened the bassdrum and all those things together got rid of the double triggering. Now I have a problem which looks like double triggering, but seems to be of a different kind. I’ve been recording my drums on a DAW (Reaper) for a few months now, but the last few weeks my bassdrum is sometimes triggering double notes. But they’re so close together that at first I didn’t notice it. When listening closely I heard it. I also didn’t see it at first. But when zooming in on the drum track real close I can see a second note left from the played bass drum note. The strange thing is that the doubled note is before the actual played note, and it’s  way softer. Whereas with normal double triggering the first note is the loudest or as loud as the second note. Does anyone have any idea what this could be? 

Wilbo

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2021, 12:07:50 PM »
Sorry, I posted this in the Drumit3 forum. It should officially be in the Drumit5 forum.

Stoked2

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2021, 03:59:17 PM »
Check the head tension, ot might need to be cracked up a little. Also, and not a shot at ddrum, could be the trigger, try one off another drum if you have one

welshsteve

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2021, 12:20:33 AM »
Check the head tension, ot might need to be cracked up a little. Also, and not a shot at ddrum, could be the trigger, try one off another drum if you have one

This would be my suggestion too. I broke SO MANY ddrum triggers, they ain't the most robust at all. What happens is one of two things.

1. One of the solder wires, usually the blue one, breaks at the soldering point but is still touching the connection.
2. the piezo element develops a small crack.

Both lead to the same result. Either a total loss of triggering or like you've noticed, very quick double triggering. However, the fact the first one is quiet and the second is louder makes me 2nd guess this could be the issue.

What trigger type do you have it set on btw?

Wilbo

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2021, 04:10:04 PM »
Okay, first I tried another DDrum trigger. That didn’t help. Then I tried a 2Box trigger, but the problem was still there. Then I cranked both heads way up and played around with a cushion a little bit, and that helps. It’s already way better and I only get the doubles now when I play very firmly. I think my next step will be putting another layer of foam rubber in the drum. That way I can hopefully eliminate the firm hits causing double triggering.

The trigger type I have it set on is Kick2.

Stoked2

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2021, 09:55:22 PM »
Great what heads are you using? If they aremo Silent Strokes they definitely a super bouncy head,  especially cranked tight! Drum Tec Real Feels or r Zed Triple Plys . Both 3 ply heads . An even cheaper but decent triple is Prism. Giod luck. I still dont like htnose Ddrum triggers but if you can get them rivht with a changed head you dont have to spend a lot of money now
 Never thought of it but what beater are you using on your kick pedal. Could be as simple as thebeater or adjustments on your pedal. Mess around with that even before by a different head

welshsteve

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2021, 12:14:51 AM »
Generally, more muffling will eleminate these issues (if there's no connection issues I mentioned in a previous reply) As the last guy said a decent thick 2/3 ply head will also  be a major step in the right direction to help with this. Raising the mask time too. As you said, harder hit which dig into the head will lead to this. If it's any consolation, I get this issue with a Mimic pro which has as a really advanced trigger interface, so it's not the module, just the combination of heads, tension, muffling, setting and lastly technique. Though adjusting the last one is a last resort, you don't wanna be rethinking your whole playing technique to a point where it's unnatural.

Hope you figure it out!

Stoked2

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2021, 01:04:43 AM »
Great suggestions from Welsh Steve. Sometimes there are a combination of things that may contribute to one problem and it is a trial by error. Also there is that suggestion to be patient( which I hate to hear, lol!) I am sure you will figure it out. I wonder if any drum companys would give you a return policy for a short 30 day period so you could try another trigger?

Wilbo

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2021, 02:42:39 PM »
I use a Drum Tec Designer as my strike head and a Drum Tec basic on the other side (maybe that could be part of the problem too). Actually I don’t like my heads too bouncy (on my acoustic kit I always played with a very loose kick head), but I think with my E-kick I have to settle for tight. My pedal is an old Pearl pedal, I don’t even know the type. The beater has a felt side as well as a plastic side. I play with the plastic side and have a Drum Tec protection dot on the head.

Thanks everyone for the tips! I guess playing around with all these various things will help getting me there (or close).

I was wondering… would buying an E-kickdrum from for instance ATV or Drum Tec help?

Wilbo

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2021, 02:46:26 PM »
Actually the question shoud be: When I buy an E-kickdrum from ATV or Drum Tec, would I have the same issues?

welshsteve

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2021, 06:18:31 PM »
Here's a suggestion, you said your using "kick 2" as a trigger type? Try AC1 or AC2! These are meant for larger drums (which have larger waveforms than small pads)

See how that fairs.

Stoked2

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2021, 09:56:47 PM »
After you try Welsh Steve's suggestion of using a different kick setting and hopefully it fixes your problem, you can maybe at that time back off your tension a little, not sloppy soft, on your kick batter head since you said you liked the feeling of a softer head!

Wilbo

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2021, 10:28:56 AM »
I tried settings AC1 and AC2. The problem actually gets worse then. I tried every setting, but Kick2 works best.

Wilbo

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2021, 12:37:08 PM »
Guess what, I found the culprit! First I tried to place the trigger at the right bottom of the drum, where the cushion is against the head, as to avoid any movement of the head. But the doubles were still there! Then I thouht, let’s remove the protection dot… and, no doubles anymore! I wouldn’t have thought the dot could be the cause, because it was actually sticking pretty tight to the head.
Now I’m going to experiment with cutting the dot into a smaller size, to see if that works. I do need some protection for the head.

Stoked2

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Re: Double triggering, but different...
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2021, 03:01:51 PM »
Glad you found it! What is tough with these problems is that there can be so many different factors that can cause the same problem