Author Topic: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards  (Read 5129 times)

ddrummer68

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2021, 04:36:47 PM »
After struggling to get this done with Mac tools, I gave up and used my Windows 10 VM.  Following the instructions as written, it worked the first time.  I purchased SanDisk Ultra SDXC UHS-I 64GB cards. No issues booting, nor any audio glitches that I can detect. 

One more e-drumming compromise eradicated.  ;D
 
THANK YOU for this great tip.
DrumIt 5 SN: 02949

Karbonfaiba

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2021, 11:58:18 PM »
Reporting here that Kingston Canvas Go! Plus microSDXC 64GB works very well in a 2box Drumit5 MKII.

I had a clue from a replacement card I was given by 2box support.

Basically since 2018, manufacturers have only recently started to realise a number of people aren't using memory cards just to store data, but to use them to install and run apps. A helpful standard was invented called "Application Performance Class Specification" to certify which cards are suitable for this; rated A1 and A2.

Having high input-output access per second isn't the complete picture, however, there is very reasonable link between high read IOPS and low random access latency - which 2box needs to be below 1ms on absolute terms. Quite a few older 64GB SD Cards actually meet the criteria to be certified A1 already from my research, but they were made before the specification came about. A1 requirement is at least 1500 IOPS read. My Kingston Canvas Go! Plus is A2 (at least 4000 IOPS read) The official 2box card is rated A1.

I have 4 microSD cards now; the ones that are rated A1 or above, work without issue. The cards that aren't certified at all, have glitches and lag. My testing tools aren't sophisticated, but they work well enough to reveal the secret is in read latency (at a particular chunk size) and also read consistency - that I'm just going to say it; buying any 64GB card (or even 128GB provided you restrict the partition size) as long as they are A1 or A2 certified, should work in 2box without any issues.

Shopping only for A1 / A2 certified memory cards should be the silver bullet.

ANGR77

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2021, 05:20:07 AM »
Karbonfaiba...Some nice research here!

And you are totally right here also regarding the cards and classes.

Nice work!

Best regards

Anders / www.Zourman.com / delivering 2box SD cards + memory modkits!
Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystalbeat, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, PCY-155, MD, 2Box 5 MK1&II & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.14, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.co

halftime

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #63 on: April 20, 2021, 05:43:59 AM »
That's some valuable information. Thanks for sharing, Karbonfaiba!

I've been struggling with latency when trying to use SD2 exports as I've written before. At the moment, I'm suspecting it's the combination of a not-entirely-optimal memory card and having to use the XTALK and X-TRG settings with my pads. I wonder if this new performance rating could be the key to solving the problem. Maybe I'll try to find one more card and see if it makes a difference.

halftime

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #64 on: April 20, 2021, 07:33:35 AM »
One thing to note about the A1/A2 classification is that apparently in some cases A2 may not be faster than A1 despite the specifications. I came by this discussion when googling what this is all about. I don't know if it matters with 2Box.

Just so that things wouldn't be too simple :D

Karbonfaiba

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #65 on: April 20, 2021, 05:44:05 PM »
I read that too halftime, which is exactly why I punted for an A2 so I had a comparison.

I will post some pictures here later if I can pass the moderation check. There is also uncertainly around when a manufacturer sells MLC or TLC in the same product line as well, as they often switch technology between sizes and don't specify this, annoyingly.

I do have a significant enough sequential write speed boost on the A2 card vs the A1 card, but read access latency is more uniform.

Karbonfaiba

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #66 on: April 20, 2021, 06:55:33 PM »


All cards shown here are formatted working for 2box (32k cluster, 4k align)

Please notice the change in scale for the Unbranded and Samsung EVO+ firstly. Highlighted in red are the issues that cause glitches / lag.

This isn't just the average random access time that A1 and A2 do better at here - I ran this test several times and noticed I could get those spikes far more occasionally with the uncertified cards than I could with both the Kingston, only rarely would those spike up to 0.8ms, whereas the others could spike anywhere from 3 to 10 sec in worst case scenario.

Highlighted in white on the CANVAS Go Plus 64 GB A2 - this grouping of slightly higher access time appeared only with 4k align formatting (just interesting to note, it was more consistent without alignment but that doesn't boot 2box OS)

Both the 32 GB cards also seem to have a common split in access time due to something, which nether of the 64GB cards have.


jojo34

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2021, 05:01:09 PM »
very cool research Karbon ty for that

halftime

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2021, 03:18:19 PM »
Ah well, still no silver bullet for me with the Kingston Canvas Go Plus 64 GB A2. Latency persists with the SD2 export kit.

ANGR77

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2021, 06:37:39 PM »
Ah well, still no silver bullet for me with the Kingston Canvas Go Plus 64 GB A2. Latency persists with the SD2 export kit.

I think we have discussed this before somewhere...the SD2 issue and the experienced latency or that particular sounds seems to eat up all system resources are related to something else than the memory card.

Here's what you can try to solve latency: (if you have not seen it previously)
- try changing the Decay from "infinite" to 10 for all pieces in your kit, it was found to help a lot.
- try setting "Max tune up" to 4 in SDSE Options > Convert to get smaller dsnd files. 

Best regards

Anders / www.Zourman.com

« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 06:49:11 PM by ANGR77 »
Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystalbeat, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, PCY-155, MD, 2Box 5 MK1&II & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.14, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.co

halftime

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2021, 06:06:26 AM »
I think we have discussed this before somewhere...the SD2 issue and the experienced latency or that particular sounds seems to eat up all system resources are related to something else than the memory card.

Here's what you can try to solve latency: (if you have not seen it previously)
- try changing the Decay from "infinite" to 10 for all pieces in your kit, it was found to help a lot.
- try setting "Max tune up" to 4 in SDSE Options > Convert to get smaller dsnd files.

Yeah... we tried all of this with Lustar, but we were unable to solve the problem completely. The set becomes playable with shortened samples and max tune +4, but at that point the cymbal samples are so short that it sounds unnatural.

One suggestion was that the XTALK/X-TRG settings contribute to the glitching and I have to use X-TRG with my PD-85 pads to prevent x-talk between the head and the rim. However, the glitching persists even if I unplug the toms, so I don't know if that can be the issue.

The search continues.

edcito

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2021, 08:09:38 AM »
for me the search was over 1 year ago after the drumit5 mk2 release, after many sleepless nights and trying everything, an SD3 Kit from Death and Darkness simply wasn't playable, sorry but if you want to play SD2, EZD2,  BFD3, SD3 kits you will be disappointed.
It's true the latest OS X-Talk settings have a huge impact on this, if your pads need these settings on you will be disappointed too.
2box reached their Peak, no more to add with that obsolete hardware, 2Box won't move a finger because the stock kits work perfectly without any glitch, any other imported kit is like "import at own risk".

It was fun with 2box, but I moved on to an edrumin and a module from another manufacturer.
Take care.

logihack

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2021, 11:39:43 AM »
i was really surprised when i put original card in drumit 3 card slot. Even if i didnt notice lag with samples made from ssd5.5, ad2, sd2, ez2, before i can feel it now. The sound is there, on the spot, with every hit and I must say it wins in playability, compared to better sounding VST samples.

halftime

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2021, 11:48:31 AM »
for me the search was over 1 year ago after the drumit5 mk2 release, after many sleepless nights and trying everything, an SD3 Kit from Death and Darkness simply wasn't playable, sorry but if you want to play SD2, EZD2,  BFD3, SD3 kits you will be disappointed.
It's true the latest OS X-Talk settings have a huge impact on this, if your pads need these settings on you will be disappointed too.
2box reached their Peak, no more to add with that obsolete hardware, 2Box won't move a finger because the stock kits work perfectly without any glitch, any other imported kit is like "import at own risk".

It was fun with 2box, but I moved on to an edrumin and a module from another manufacturer.
Take care.

Yeah, it doesn't really seem like 2Box is making a lot of innovations at the moment. The DrumIt 3 and 5 Mk2 are basically just tweaked versions of the original module that is already 15 years old or so. It must be a tough business for them though, so I kind of understand if they don't have enough resources for proper R&D.

I've said before that 2Box is a bit like the Linux of e-drums - if you know the internals really well, you can do some great things with it, but on the other hand, an average user might run into some weird problems that are just impossible to solve.

Personally, I can manage with the stock samples and I think they still sound a lot better than my old TD-12. Working VST exports would be a very nice bonus, but I can live without them for now.

Karbonfaiba

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Re: DrumIt5 MKII with 64gb Cards
« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2021, 12:43:00 PM »
Hmmm, I had no idea of the history of problems with custom samples.

If you can find a way to share your problematic DSNDs with me privately (or your DrumIt5MK2.dkit) I would be interested to see if I can experience the same issues on my 2box.


I'm suspecting you have a trigger parameter issue because I went through the same growing pains with 2box as I did with Megadrum. The main lesson from any of these "Linux" modules is; parameters make or break the experience and they give you the freedom to break it!

I don't think any of this is well documented or understood, but once you learn how all edrum modules work, you develop a sense of CPU stress or out of bounds / trigger anomalies robbing CPU cycles. 2box would definitely be susceptible. It's the same principle as the random access memory tester. If you peak once, it stalls.

I've spotted so many things like that on 2box since I got it, I haven't even had the time to write about the issues yet, but you can cause faults with trigger parameters on any module that allows it.

Have you tried disconnecting your hihat pedal? (as that sends the most continuous data) I'm pretty confident in the Kingston Canvas Go Plus 64 GB A2 - so I'm hoping this is a trigger parameter issue. I haven't done any SD2 exports with SDSE yet and the SD3 export I tried of an EZX2 kit wasn't as good as the native EZX2 export for reasons of missing velocity layers, not lag or anything of the sort.