Author Topic: 5 mk2 hihat bug?  (Read 180 times)

lucianoiam

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5 mk2 hihat bug?
« on: March 22, 2020, 05:32:06 PM »
I managed to get a Roland VH-10 hihat play nice with the DrumIt 5 mk2. However there's this little annoying issue that allows producing an impossible articulation: https://filebin.ca/5GVvKqo1QaFR

The audio demo example was created by hitting the hi-hat pad with the pedal fully open, then closing gently (let's say not tightly, 95% closed) and then hitting again.

The title says "bug" because this should not happen no matter the calibration settings. A closed hi-hat sound cannot play at the same time a fully open sound plays. A fully closed sound should always mute any previous fully open sound; I guess that is an oversimplification of the logic involved but what is heard in the demo just sounds very bad. I do not believe it's a hi-hat/calibration/drummer issue.

I insist in ruling out calibration because that would break other fragile aspects...

ANGR77

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Re: 5 mk2 hihat bug?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2020, 10:54:08 PM »
Hi!

Test to raise the pfact about 10-15 steps. (Found on the Hcal page)

Best regards

Anders / www.zourman.com
Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystallite, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 MK1&II & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

lucianoiam

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Re: 5 mk2 hihat bug?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2020, 01:38:19 PM »
Hi thanks, already tried hundreds of combinations of all parameters including tweaking RAW and the physical hi-hat screw. Literally spent full days experimenting with it. This cannot be fixed without breaking other subtle articulations. The hi-hat logic is weak or at least not very configurable. I owned a full Roland kit for many years and while the VH-10 is working acceptably it is nowhere reliable in my new setup.Summarizing, the hi-hat experience is acceptable but does not match Roland's. It is all about the subtleties.

Take for example the foot chick, it needs to be set to -6 Neg2  otherwise is too hot. I found that on my own then I saw a video on YouTube recommending the same (I think it was yours). That is almost out of scale, for a super popular device. Does not feel right. I am sure it is not me.

I also own a Yamaha DT-50S acoustic drum trigger and while it works, gain is set to 24 (max) and response curve to Neg1. Again operating on the edge. Now I need to buy a 2-Box trigger which are hard to find at least in Europe.

Everything feels like the module is tuned to a particular brand of sensors without too much difference at the hardware level compared to previous non-UTI models, with an early version of a software compensation layer that allowed to stick the "Universal" label. The same Boeing did to get the MAX flying, pardon the sad analogy. Or leaving the wild guess out, in the best case not sufficiently tested with popular gear out there. Why there are not gear presets for example? that would be incredibly dumb to develop and a huge help to non techies.

The whole idea of a "Universal Trigger Interface" is breaking dependence on a particular brand and/or being able to reuse your existing gear. In my case I do not want to buy all the overpriced and silly 90s looking Roland stuff, nor I would like to finally have to buy everything 2-Box.

Hope subsequent software updates improve this. The manual also needs to be improved. My rant is really about not being able to find the "perfect" drum module yet. This is the closest though.

It is a great sounding machine with lots of potential but the hardware support hasn't been great in my experience. Maybe my bar was set too high there, expecting something more "magical".

Does the 2-Box hihat need a separate foot controller or is it a single piece device like the VH10? does it provide better articulations?


« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 08:36:24 PM by lucianoiam »

ANGR77

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Re: 5 mk2 hihat bug?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2020, 11:35:13 PM »
Hi!

Sorry to hear about your challenges- and it is all about finding the perfect triggering!

First, you are completely right about the foot chick sens...I am always setting it to -6, neg 2...I fully agree on that it is too hot otherwise! It has been like this forever...and I realized this when inventing the first Zourman hh conversation module for Five MKI. (When the universal trigger System did not exist )

I am occasionally connect my Vh11 hh to my Three and lately Five MKII using my hh conversation module (so I run the hh in 2box hh mode)....I don’t know why...but a big smile occurs every time. (say no more...) I have also a pot to cool down the signal slightly on my box for the hh pad.

I have been using both my own triggers and external triggers from Roland [RT-10# and RT-30] and they works great on 2box modules.

Looking for settings to many Roland gears...check the support document for DrumIt Three at the 2box site...here you have pdf links to a couple of configs.

The 2box hihat (both the old and the new hh included in the Speedlight) are in one piece  - no foot controller.

Best regards

Anders / www.zourman.com
Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystallite, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 MK1&II & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

lucianoiam

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Re: 5 mk2 hihat bug?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2020, 02:39:29 PM »
Hey thanks a lot for your comments there is a lot of useful experience there. I am aware of the Z boxes, great work. And if I correctly understood the VH-10 will work better using the box so this is an official complaint for 2Box then... guys please improve the "Universal" part.
 
I will have a look at the official controllers indeed I am actively looking for a snare Trigit which seem to be out of stock everywhere. Clearly was not my original plan but I want to play the drums and not waste my time fighting against a machine.

Lastly I would like to re-emphasize the fact that the current hi-hat logic (as of OS 1.36.30) is currently able to produce impossible combinations of sounds (compared to a real drumkit) and intuition tells me the hi-hat logic should not be coupled to hardware sensors in that way. This is something that should not be left alone to calibration and the simplest explanation is that hi-hat logic is not robust/thoroughly tested with 3rd party gear in this first iteration of the "Universal Trigger Interface". Really hoping this can be improved via software alone.

Best regards  :rock:
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 10:16:31 AM by lucianoiam »