Author Topic: Sampling a ride cymbal?  (Read 1811 times)

Dobly

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Sampling a ride cymbal?
« on: December 11, 2019, 03:56:21 AM »
I have a beautiful old Zildjian K 20" dark ride cymbal that did 100s of shows with me in the  90s and 00s.

I would like to sample this ride to use with my D3 module.. If I am going to do this I want to do it right..

I watch this excellent video from 2Box that shows how simple it is to sample a snare at a bunch of different velocities and turn in into a file used by the D3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk3ib6fEH7s

Now there is big difference between a snare and a ride.. One hit on the ride might last 20 seconds +++.

The bell, bow and edge each need a range of different velocity hits.

Needless to say, this would end up a very very large instrument file.

Some compromise would need to be made. My question is, where? How much? I guess this is a art in itself.. Are there any guides on how to sample cymbals?

welshsteve

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Re: Sampling a ride cymbal?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2019, 11:18:45 PM »
Personally I would sample the bow and edge 30 layers, a few less for the bell as we generally whack the bell. Don't worry about the file size being large, most of the 2box stock ride sounds are large (in comparison to other sounds) as well.

I would suggest a nice condenser mic for sampling, I assume you know this. If one mic it will be completely dry. If you want a more wet sound, sample it in a stoney room of some kind with another pair of condenser mics 2-3 meters away. You can add the wetness digitally if you like, but natural ambience will always sound better in my opinion.

Hope you get good results.

Dobly

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Re: Sampling a ride cymbal?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2019, 01:46:08 AM »
Good stuff. Thanks Steve.. I plan to have a crack at this in next few days.. If it turns out good I'll share the file here..

welshsteve

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Re: Sampling a ride cymbal?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2019, 07:18:53 AM »
Oh, one more thing, explore noise reduction techniques too. In your DAW, this can be a VST plug in. There are of course many ones, I don't know which off hand would be best. Perhaps someone else can suggest a very good one that doesn't "dull" the sample.

ANGR77

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Re: Sampling a ride cymbal?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2019, 09:17:03 AM »
Hi!

Some more hints:

Getting a good range of layers...it could be a bit hard to get 30 different layers with their own velocity...so the trick here is to record when hitting like 5x16 times..and try to go from tiny to hard hits during 16 steps. Do it 4-5 times...and record the whole thing. Now you have a broad range of hits to choose and pick from...to get about 30 good layers. Take out mishits etc.

For a ride hit, make it sound for about 20 seconds and then wait 5...before hitting again. Now you have a good chance to let tools like audacity (there are other tools which can do this also like the one used in the video) to auto export all hits to separate wave files. In audacity you have some functionality to also eliminate noice...or even call a separate VST effect etc.

I have made 3 snare samples this way...A Ludwig Black beauty from 1920s, and two real hard rock snares from 101drums...you can see and hear them on my site: :-)

https://zourman.com/product/101drums-blue-diamond-snare-samples-for-2box-drumit-five-three/

https://zourman.com/product/101drums-blue-white-diamond-snare-for-drumit-five-three/

https://zourman.com/product/ludwig-black-beauty-1922-snare-sample/



Best regards

Anders / www.zourman.com
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 09:22:45 AM by ANGR77 »
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Matfarsan

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Re: Sampling a ride cymbal?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2020, 08:24:53 PM »
When you sample for multi layers and put it in the editor do you have to name the different wave files according to the velocity?
Snare1 = lowest velocity
Snare2 = a bit higher
Etc etc
Or do the editor feel the velocity by itself?

tsss27

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Re: Sampling a ride cymbal?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2020, 03:22:48 AM »
I have sampled many rides, as well as crashes that have ride capabilities.
I've said it before and will continue to point this out. The biggest flaw with the cymbal sounds already available without spending more money is that they are nowhere as deeply sampled as the drums. I have a 21" Sabian Evolution ride sample set that has 84 bell layers, 99 bow layers (the hardest ones are when you hit the shoulder of the stick on the top,) and almost 40 edge layers. The file is, from memory, around 220 MB in size.
If you really want the cymbal to respond like the real acoustic one, it will take time. If you just want the basic tone of your cymbal to be available and don't need a ton of nuance, you won't need to take as much time on it.

For splitting the samples, Reaper has a wonderful dynamic split function. You do not need to wait at all after a hit has ended if you set it up right; in fact the cymbal can still be barely resonating to the point where no one will hear it anyway, and it will still split correctly. All I have to do is check the sample start and end points and then I apply a very gentle fade at the end just to be on the safe side.

ANGR77

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Re: Sampling a ride cymbal?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2020, 06:45:11 AM »
Or do the editor feel the velocity by itself?

The editor sort the layers by itself....and do this quite good...

Best regards

Anders / www.zourman.com
Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystalbeat, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, PCY-155, MD, 2Box 5 MK1&II & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.14, all ADPaks moved to 2box, Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com