Snare trigger settings

[Coda]

I had a major breakthrough today, and I felt I should share it.

I've had problems with my DIY snare since the beginning, I thought it was the 2ply Remo head on my snare or maybe my DIY trigger, but I haven't been able pin down the root cause.

The primary issue was where I'd get a loud (~0db) rimshot or snare hit with only a moderate playing force, and sometimes a strong force would result in a less than 0db hit. Secondary, I'd often get rim or sidestick sounds (depending on whether I was using a factory or a built-from-vst snare) when playing the head. This meant my playing dynamics were unpredictable and playing live I was a nervous wreck. While reading the manual today about all the routing options (I figured it out so I won't be posting another routing help question ) I noticed something mentioned about settings for the new acoustic triggers. Curious, I opened the drumittrig.dkit file with dkit manager and noticed that actrig3 was set on the snare, so I changed my snare from xpad to actrig3 and all the dynamics problems and rim crosstalk issues just disappeared! Night and day difference. I've even been able to put the xtalk setting back to 0.
To anyone using DIY triggers inside a real drum with a mesh head and having issues, don't be afraid to try the actrig[1,2,3] settings because you've heard/read that you need to use xpad/xrim, and that the actrig settings are only for 2box's own acoustic triggers.

[drumsonly2002]

Thanks. Making a new kit later this winter. Nice post, 

[Jman]

Probably the biggest problem was using XPad as the pad type for the head. I haven't found a use for that one yet. XRim on the other hand I use for the rim on all my mesh pads. XRim makes it possible to set the threshold plenty low on the rim to get light rimshots and still not trigger the rim from the head. For my own mesh drums I use Pad 8, 10, 12 settings for heads and XRim for the rims. But this is very much dependent on the trigger type you're using or building. XRim is the default setting for the Rim zone on the new Rubber Head pads as well as the TrigIt triggers.

[Coda]

If I remember correctly I still had issues with Pad[10,12] etc but I can't remember to what extent. It may have been the trigger at that time, I've rebuilt it several times with different foam, piezo in different places etc, to try and get it responding correctly. It's just the typical piezo on an L-bracket with a sanding-block type of foam on top, pressing against the head near the edge, a-la Wronka, etc.
I've stuck with XRIM on the rim, that's been working fine. Now I just have to remember to build my kits properly with SDSE and the sidestick/rim split, and I can get reliable sidestick and rimshots. I still don't understand how the factory 2box kits differentiate between sidestick and rimshot, those kits never worked properly for me (I play a lot of sidestick in low-key church songs, so it has to be 100% reliable).

[Jman]

I've stuck with XRIM on the rim, that's been working fine. Now I just have to remember to build my kits properly with SDSE and the sidestick/rim split, and I can get reliable sidestick and rimshots. I still don't understand how the factory 2box kits differentiate between sidestick and rimshot, those kits never worked properly for me (I play a lot of sidestick in low-key church songs, so it has to be 100% reliable).

There is only one rimshot/Crosstick combo rim dsnd in the stock 2Box module. It is named Cross Shot. I've built quite a few velocity switching rimshot/crosstick sounds in SDSE, and even built some manually before the feature was added to SDSE. But another option is to simply assign the crosstick sound to another pad rim. Or split a tom and use a separate rimshot bar for crosstick. 

[roel]

There is only one rimshot/Crosstick combo rim dsnd in the stock 2Box module. It is named Cross Shot. I've built quite a few velocity switching rimshot/crosstick sounds in SDSE, and even built some manually before the feature was added to SDSE. But another option is to simply assign the crosstick sound to another pad rim. Or split a tom and use a separate rimshot bar for crosstick.

I know that the snares on a Roland td module mostly play the crosstick and rimshots.
That's what I like about the Roland modules/snare.
I'am looking also for rimshot/crosstick sampels for my 2box module.
Jman...

[Coda]

There is only one rimshot/Crosstick combo rim dsnd in the stock 2Box module. It is named Cross Shot. I've built quite a few velocity switching rimshot/crosstick sounds in SDSE, and even built some manually before the feature was added to SDSE. But another option is to simply assign the crosstick sound to another pad rim. Or split a tom and use a separate rimshot bar for crosstick.

Yeah I considered that, for about 5 seconds. I prefer to keep the mechanics of playing the same as acoustic as much as possible, in case I need to play an acoustic kit in the future. There are a couple or three factory kits I still play, I guess I could split them with dsoundtool and rebuild them with a cross-stick. I still don't understand how it's supposed to work on the 2box module though, with factory kits, and factory pads.

[Coda]

I know that the snares on a Roland td module mostly play the crosstick and rimshots.
That's what I like about the Roland modules/snare.
I'am looking also for rimshot/crosstick sampels for my 2box module.
Jman...

Rimshot samples will depend on the sound of the individual snare, whereas crosstick you can take from anywhere and it might sound ok. With SDSE you can export snare drums from any (or most) VSTs you might have, and split the rim so that up to a certain %age velocity hit on the rim you get a cross-stick sound, and stronger than that, rimshots. Thats how Roland does it.

[dboomer]

For my own mesh drums I use Pad 8, 10, 12 settings for heads and XRim for the rims. But this is very much dependent on the trigger type you're using or building.

Choosing a trigger type is a bit confusing. They pretty much all seem to work on my Roland mash pads so much that I can't tell the difference between them. The owner's manual doesn't give any detailed explaination between them.

Can anyone explain the technical differences between them?

[Jman]

Choosing a trigger type is a bit confusing. They pretty much all seem to work on my Roland mash pads so much that I can't tell the difference between them. The owner's manual doesn't give any detailed explaination between them.

Can anyone explain the technical differences between them?

The latest trigger types for the Rubber Head drums, Trigit triggers as well as the XPad, XRim trigger choices are explained in the latest 2Box manual 1.30 under the OS update section of the 2Box site. That is an addendum specifically dealing with the new trigger types.

Trigger types:
Kick1/2 and Pad8/10/12 are trigger types for original 2Box mesh head drums (8" 2Box drum hasn't been released, but maybe they will put one out in the future).
Cym12/14 are trigger types for original 2Box cymbals (12" 2box cymbal not released, but possibly in the future).
HiHat: Original 2Box HH set.

AcTr 1/2/3: for external acoustic triggers

CyCup and CyEdg are trigger types for other brand Piezo/Switch cymbals, with piezo in bow and switch at edge or in bell. Examples like Roland Cy-14C (Bow/Edge using CyEdg setting) Cy-15R (using Bow/Bell cymbal jack and CyCup setting).

[InTheBox]

What's the difference between kick 1 and 2? I don't really hear much difference between the two.

[dboomer]

Right, that's what is says in the manual ... But there is not explaination as to the differences between them.

For example, what's the difference between Pad8 and Pad10 or as InTheBox asks Kick1 and Kick2?  they almost all seem to work with my Roland mesh pads. But I assume there might be some benefit based on one playing style or another.

I'm guessing they set different scan, retrigger and mask parameters if I was using Roland speak. It could be valuable to understand the technicalities of the trigger settings as one size rarely fits all. 

I guess what I am asking for is an "advanced user's guide" if anyone out there from the factory is listening. Sorry, it's just my nature to want to know as much as possible about what goes on under the hood having spent the last dozen years as an engineer and product manager for Peavey and Line 6.