Hi hat problems

[mandubien]

Hey guys,

Ok, I know a lot of people posted threads on hi hat problem but I didn't see anyone telling about my problem.

So it's quite simple : when closed : perfect. When totally open : perfect. But it's simply unplayable between closed and open. I tried with the standard stand, with a Mapex or a Pearl stand. I tried to setup the trigger as it's said or with my feet. When it's semi-open, it's like there is a problem with the trigger.

I will try to make an audio file to make you listen. It's very frustrating, since the rest of the kit is just perfect !

[EDIT] You will find an audio file here

[Remi]

Did you looked here ?

http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,220.0.html

[mandubien]

Did you looked here ?

http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,220.0.html

I just did not understand anything of this thread 

Can you please summurize it ? What is this test page and how to load it ?
Thank you for your help

[UC]

I know what you mean, I think Deve Loper maybe sometimes forgets that not everyone thinks in binary   

The key question I suppose is, have you calibrated your hihat like this:

...It's pretty important not to change the height of the top hat once you've found your 'sweet spot', because that breaks the calibration.

You could even mark the hihat rod with some tape, once you've found your most comfortable setting (or use another hi hat clutch as a 'memory lock').

The calibration method tells the brain what is open, and what is closed, and the brain gives each end a value, and can then work out a set of measures inbetween (this is the 'linear' bit - just like centimetres marked on a ruler). It plays a hi hat sample (or mix of samples) based on where it is measuring the hi hat at any moment.

The hi hat test sample is a set of spoken samples that will help you understand how far open or closed the brain thinks you're playing the hi hat. There are 4 measures.

You'll need to download the file to a Windows PC and use a USB cable (same as you get with most printers) to load it into the 2box brain. To do this, switch off the brain, plug in the USB cable, and when you start the brain up you need to quickly press the top left button above the screen, to put the brain into USB Mode. Windows should then see your brain like it's a USB memory stick, so you can drag the test dsnd file into the right place - makes sense to put it in X:\Cymbal\Hihat - where X is the drive letter that comes up in My Computer for the Drumit Five.

You need to then shut down the brain (I always use the Safely Remove Hardware icon next to the clock in Windows - I've lost important data before just pulling out the cable).

You can then start the brain up again normally, and press the "kit" button, page down once to the DRUM page, and press the hihat button on the left side of the brain. Then dial the "Drum" knob to the Test Hi Hat, and start hitting that hi hat and listening to that lovely American lady count from 1 to 4 - free set of broken drumsticks for the first person who can get her to say "eleven"

Also, have you played with any of the settings in the brain? eg threshold, curve etc?:

when you press UNIT -> Page Down (once) so you see DRUM vertically in the side panel.
press the hihat button to select that instrument

Before you start playing with these settings, make a note of what they are first so you can at least come back to where you were if things get messed up.

Hope this helps - let us know how you get on

cheers
Tom

[mandubien]

Hello UC !

Thank you for your very helpful post ! So yes I have calibrated the hi-hat, many times in fact. It doesn't really help for my problem in fact. I will try the test to better understand it. The problem will probably be fixed with the next update I suppose ?

[EDIT] Ok I tried this famous test, and now I better understand how the hihat works. In fact, only the "number 3" is hard to keep. She often says : 4-3-3-2-2-4-3-3-3-4-2 etc....
Since we are not machines, it's hard to keep your foot always at the same level 3.

[Scottie]

Hello UC !

Thank you for your very helpful post ! So yes I have calibrated the hi-hat, many times in fact. It doesn't really help for my problem in fact. I will try the test to better understand it. The problem will probably be fixed with the next update I suppose ?

[EDIT] Ok I tried this famous test, and now I better understand how the hihat works. In fact, only the "number 3" is hard to keep. She often says : 4-3-3-2-2-4-3-3-3-4-2 etc....
Since we are not machines, it's hard to keep your foot always at the same level 3.

Hi mandubien

With the current setup you do have to be very precise to keep your foot within those zones, but Deve released a bit if info on the forum a while back, stating that there is going to be a hihat calibration, where you can set your open and closed position.

Thanks
Scott

[mandubien]

Hi mandubien

With the current setup you do have to be very precise to keep your foot within those zones, but Deve released a bit if info on the forum a while back, stating that there is going to be a hihat calibration, where you can set your open and closed position.

Thanks
Scott

Hi Scot !

Thanks a lot for your note ! So the best for now is to play regions 1, 2 and 4. Hope the new release will be soon 

[Baby Samus]

Only one thing really needs fixed - the way the hi-hat controls.

The problem seems to be when the pedal is depressed and the hi-hat pad moves away from the magnetic sensor.  The space in between being fully open and closed is too hard to control.

When I play, keeping them tightly closed is easy because your foot is resting on the pedal.  Fully open and your foot is off the pedal, and therefore its easily controlled.  In other words, the sensor distance from the pad is constant because of a constant pressure or a constant lack of pressure.

However when you want to have the hi-hat say, a quarter open, or half open, or three quarters open, it is very difficult to keep the sensor distance correct to keep that sound, because your foot is going to move a little as its not resting on anything.  In other words, the sensor pressure (naturally) does not stay the same.

Add to that, the sensor is saying the foot pedal is moving a little even though it is not, and I guess that might be the sensor detecting the wrong distance to the pad because the pad has been hit, and the distance or angle of it to the sensor has changed slightly.

I think that these two things basically mean your foot has a lot of trouble picking the right amount of pressure to give you a consistent  sound.  This is really hard to explain and I hope others know what I mean...

So I think of one way we could approach a fix - please be aware that this idea might be UTTER RUBBISH cos I have no idea about these things but here goes:

Instead of calibrating the hi-hat sensor for being closed ONLY (and I assume that it then just measures the distance away from the pad after that), why not set the sensor once for fully closed, then, choose how many 'progress squares' (the squares under the UNIT/HI-HAT/PEDAL INDICATOR that show it going from closed to fully open) you want it to move and set the right distance again on the hats.

For example, at the moment the 'progress squares' move far too quickly even though I only move the foot pedal a short way.  So I would be able to tell the module, 'ok, when I move the pedal a quarter inch, I want you to move to 4 'progress squares', but I don't want any more 'progress squares' until the pedal has moved another quarter inch.  Like a dead zone where slight movement is allowed and the sample will not change.

I don't know if this is possible or even sensible  but it might be a way for people to have a lot more control over how the hi-hat plays...

Hi Mandubien,

This is exactly what I wanted fixed when I made the post above - glad Deve loper and 2Box are listening to our problems and I can't wait to see how the new calibration process helps in the playability of the hi-hat. 

[TimDeBim]

Hi there,
I got my kit 3 days ago and it feels really great... except for my hihat. I have a lot double-triggering in the closed position. After reading a post with the hint to check for broken metal splinters underneath the rubber I noticed a bump in the metal (see picture). Do you guys think this may cause double-triggering? Should I get the hihat replaced (hope this will be possible)? How can I in general avoid double-triggering of the hihat?

[puttenvr]

I don't see why a bump should cause double triggers
Please load the new software into the unit

[TimDeBim]

I updated to OS 1.04 and did the hihat calibration several times if you mean that. But if you have tipps how to avoid double triggering I would be grateful. Maybe I haven't found out which parameters (threshold, gain, curve) are the best for my playing style, however I played around with these and there is almost always double-triggering in the closed position.

[Baby Samus]

I updated to OS 1.04 and did the hihat calibration several times if you mean that. But if you have tipps how to avoid double triggering I would be grateful. Maybe I haven't found out which parameters (threshold, gain, curve) are the best for my playing style, however I played around with these and there is almost always double-triggering in the closed position.

Hi TimDeBin,

Double triggering usually happens when vibration from striking a pad head, or movement from the rack causes one of your pads to trigger, even when you did not strike it.

• I think your best bet is firstly to check the rack is stable and there is no movement when you strike any of your pads (the pads themselves should move a little, this is normal.  The rack and hi-hat controller should be on a level floor too)
• Secondly, I would check all your pads are securely fastened to the rack to minimize movement - don't overtighten the fasteners though as you might damage the thread.
• Now if the rack is stable, the secured clamp holding the hi-hat controller should not move when you strike the hi-hat.  The hi-hat stand should also not move at all when playing.  Also check that the hi-hat pad is level with the sensor (and not at an angle)

My hi-hat has the threshold set to max - 48, which I think is the most sensitive, and it doesn't double trigger - gain is set to 0, curve is normal.  So if you follow those tips, you shouldn't get any double triggering unless the pad has a fault I would say.  I'm sure the rest of the gang will have other suggestions too. 

[TimDeBim]

Thanks for your comments Baby Samus. I will check everything later... however, I don't have a problem with crosstalk, as I would call it when you hit a different pad and something else triggers. My problem is this (to make things clearer): When I hit the hihat in closed position (foot down) I almost always get a second hit shortly following. This problem is not solved by increasing the threshold (which I actually wouldn't like since I'd like to have it as sensible as possible). In that case I just have to hit harder to get it triggered, but then the second hit is still there... 

[nonoduweb]

Hi

I suppose that you tried to use another line, or another trigger input?

Is the second hit in Zone 3, 8 or 9? (you can see that in UNIT menu, TRIG menu, View zone)

[TimDeBim]

I tried with the cymbal 3 input and it is the same. The second (and sometimes even third) hit seems to appear only when hitting in zone 3 and then also appears in zone 3.