Author Topic: 2box module flexibility  (Read 3244 times)

norseman

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2box module flexibility
« on: April 29, 2015, 03:31:26 AM »
 :animal:

Hello there!

I'm a newb to the 2 box kit. I've been wanting one of these babies for more than 4 years now and they finally have arrived in the U.S.

I have a question as an Alesis Dm10 user.

Can you map the trigger inputs to any sound you want? It may seem obvious but in the video here it seems to indicate that you can have only up to 4 toms and 3 cymbals. I understand this is a GENERAL introduction to the kit so I'm wondering.

http://2boxfornewbies.weebly.com/video-2.html

On the other hand the 2box site seems to indicate you can map anything to anything:

http://2box.se/US/pages/pete-lockett/

Can someone please confirm? I already have 5 toms and plan to add two more so to have my Neil Peart kit.


Also, can you split the different triggers from each pad? Let's say I want to use a splitter to add extra splash sounds/cymbals.

In summary my idea is to add up to 7 toms to the the set up and then just two cymbals and the alesis 3 zone ride. The rest are AE cymbals from Gen16.

Thank You in advance.

Jman

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Re: 2box module flexibility
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2015, 03:54:05 AM »
The tom and snare inputs are splittable. Most people do not split the snare input of course, but many of us have split the tom inputs for adding more drums or cymbals. Splitting all the tom inputs gives you 8 single zone capability, be it toms, cymbals, whatever. The cymbal inputs are not splittable, they are 3 zone capable. If you are going to use the Gen16 AE Hi Hat you also have the Hi Hat input available that could be used for an additional cymbal or drum. And yes you can assign whatever sound you want to the pads.
I could tell you where to stick that piezo! :D ;)
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norseman

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Re: 2box module flexibility
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2015, 03:55:55 AM »
Thanks Jman!

norseman

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Re: 2box module flexibility
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 03:05:00 PM »
Hi Jman,


According to the manual the 2box has an extra 5 channels that can be configured. It is a little confusing as the input of those channels is just the RIM (I'm guessing ring part of the stereo TRS jack) that goes into the Snare/TOM inputs. Meaning that you can assign a cowbell sound, etc to the rim of your DUAL zone tom/snare pads.

The manual also says you can connect toms to the cymbal output but in that case only the head and rim will sound.

The cymbals are configured in sequence meaning that if the midi note for crash 1 is E4 then the next half steps are tied to it to hit the other different zones. From the manual:


´┐╝E4-F4-F#4-(G4)

´┐╝Bell-Bow-Edge-(Choke).

This leaves me wondering, what kind of cable do the 2box cymbals actually use? Is it a Stereo cable or does it have extra zones like the Gen16 ones? Obviously that is related as to why they're not splittable but at the same time, they say you can connect a dual zone tom to them. So that leaves me wondering how the input for cymbals is actually configured when related to how the CPU processes it.

I read a couple of years back that the 2box module actually detects the distance to the piezo part to determine what sound to play. This gives me hope that I can use my Alesis cymbals to get a bell-bow-edge effect if I can calibrate them correctly. The hardest may be the ride cymbal because that one uses Two stereo channels. They both have to be connected to the ride for the 2box module to detect electricity, even if only one of them goes into the cymbal input of the module.

I wish the many Line output channels could be used as inputs as well. Even with gen 16 I'm running short of inputs. I don't know what to do with the hi-hat channel yet. Perhaps that can help.

In total I had 1 snare, 1 bass drum, 5 toms, 2 hi-hats, 2 crashes and 2 rides between gen16 and Dm10 and now I find I'm falling short with the 2box module. The dm10 has 12 dual zone inputs.

My next question would be for the long term. Can I daisy chain the Dm10 to the 2box and trigger more sounds than the inputs of the 2box allow. That is, I want everything to come out of the 2 box and simply use the Dm10 to EXTEND its inputs. According to the manual:

"These additional trigger channels are referred to as PERC 1 to PERC 5 (see table) and can be edited like the other drum channels. The additional channels can be controlled via both MIDI and pads."

So it's only an extra 5 channels you can use and probably not even 2 sounds per channel. :(
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 03:53:09 PM by norseman »

Jman

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Re: 2box module flexibility
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 04:01:23 PM »
WOW .... that is one big list of questions .... I definitely encourage anyone on the forum to jump in here and lend a hand ..... I'll answer what I can:

According to the manual the 2box has an extra 5 channels that can be configured. It is a little confusing as the input of those channels is just the RIM (I'm guessing ring part of the stereo TRS jack) that goes into the Snare/TOM inputs. Meaning that you can assign a cowbell sound, etc to the rim of your DUAL zone tom/snare pads.

The Tom and Snare inputs are Dual zone using a TRS cable. But if you want more pads you can use a simple splitter like this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YPP117/ That will give you single zone toms plus whatever additional pad or cymbal you add, also single zone.

I read a couple of years back that the 2box module actually detects the distance to the piezo part to determine what sound to play. This gives me hope that I can use my Alesis cymbals to get a bell-bow-edge effect if I can calibrate them correctly. The hardest may be the ride cymbal because that one uses Two stereo channels. They both have to be connected to the ride for the 2box module to detect electricity, even if only one of them goes into the cymbal input of the module.

The 2Box cymbal inputs are TRS. The 2Box cymbals are just Piezo/Switch type cymbals. The difference between the Bell and Bow sounds are determined by the velocity of the hit (highest velocity triggers Bell sounds). Since the 2Box cymbal has the piezo in the Bell, naturally the Bell sound will trigger easiest hitting the bell where the piezo is located. Hits to the bow further away from the piezo will naturally produce bow sounds. Since the Edge is a switch, hitting the Edge triggers the switch causing an edge sound. So, Alesis Piezo/Switch cymbals will work with the 2Box module, but with the crashes the best setting would be CyEdg which will work fine .... because the piezo is located on the bow of the Alesis cymbal, using CyEdg setting will mean you would get Bow/Edge/Choke. If you were to set it to the Cym14 (stock 2Box cymbal) setting you would get Bell sounds on the bow at hard velocities.
For the ride, I don't own Alesis cymbals, but you can try connecting to the Bell output jack of the Alesis Ride. That might work for 3zone capability. I am not positive about that though because the Alesis 3 zone ride has two piezos, one in bell and one in the jack box on the bow and the edge switch is shared between the 2 jacks. So both jacks are wired to that switch and I am not sure what the effect will be. You would need to simply try it.

My next question would be for the long term. Can I daisy chain the Dm10 to the 2box and trigger more sounds than the inputs of the 2box allow. That is, I want everything to come out of the 2 box and simply use the Dm10 to EXTEND its inputs. Is that possible?

Short answer is NO. You cannot hook an additional module or TMI to the 2Box module via MIDI and trigger more inputs/sounds. You can only trigger the same sounds that are already assigned to each trigger input of the 2Box module.
I use 2 Drumit Five modules, that gives you Monster kit capability. When the Drumit Three is available ..... well I guess I'll add that into the mix as well.  :rock:



« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 05:35:19 PM by Jman »
I could tell you where to stick that piezo! :D ;)
http://stealthdrums.com/

norseman

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Re: 2box module flexibility
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2015, 05:34:16 PM »
Thanks for your replies. As i asked the questions I started going through the manual and found some answers. I'll add them here to double check.

WOW .... that is one big list of questions .... I definitely encourage anyone on the forum to jump in here and lend a hand ..... I'll answer what I can:

According to the manual the 2box has an extra 5 channels that can be configured. It is a little confusing as the input of those channels is just the RIM (I'm guessing ring part of the stereo TRS jack) that goes into the Snare/TOM inputs. Meaning that you can assign a cowbell sound, etc to the rim of your DUAL zone tom/snare pads.

The Tom and Snare inputs are Dual zone using a TRS cable. But if you want more pads you can use a simple splitter like this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YPP117/ That will give you single zone toms plus whatever additional pad or cymbal you add, also single zone.

I read a couple of years back that the 2box module actually detects the distance to the piezo part to determine what sound to play. This gives me hope that I can use my Alesis cymbals to get a bell-bow-edge effect if I can calibrate them correctly. The hardest may be the ride cymbal because that one uses Two stereo channels. They both have to be connected to the ride for the 2box module to detect electricity, even if only one of them goes into the cymbal input of the module.

The 2Box cymbal inputs are TRS. The 2Box cymbals are just Piezo/Switch type cymbals.
All of the 2box inputs are TRS. Page 18:

"Connector Assignment
All pads are connected with stereo jack cables. The trigger signal for the main zone is always on the tip of the plug, the signals of other zones or controllers are on the ring."


The difference between the Bell and Bow sounds are determined by the velocity of the hit (highest velocity triggers Bell sounds). Since the 2Box cymbal has the piezo in the Bell, naturally the Bell sound will trigger easiest hitting the bell where the piezo is located. Hits to the bow further away from the piezo will naturally produce bow sounds. Since the Edge is a switch, hitting the Edge triggers the switch causing an edge sound.



Thanks for that, this is the opposite of the Alesis, like you mentioned below.


So, Alesis Piezo/Switch cymbals will work with the 2Box module, but with the crashes the best setting would be CyEdg which will work fine .... because the piezo is located on the bow of the Alesis cymbal, using CyEdg setting will mean you would get Bow/Edge/Choke. If you were to set it to the Cym14 (stock 2Box cymbal) setting you would get Bell sounds on the bow at hard velocities.

I think I've seen this setting. I'll look it up in the manual.

For the ride, I don't own Alesis cymbals, but you can try connecting to the Bell output jack of the Alesis Ride. That might work for 3zone capability. I am not positive about that though because the Alesis 3 zone ride has two piezos, one in bell and one in the jack box on the bow and the edge switch is shared between the 2 jacks. So both jacks are wired to that switch and I am not sure what the effect will be. You would need to simply try it.

It works better, THANK YOU, and like you said sharing of the switch piezo explains why both cables need to be connected as this closes the circuit before outputting to the module. The only problem now is that hitting the bow ALSO triggers the edge sound, so you're basically riding and crashing MOST of the time. The zone where you can ride is very small out of the box and most of the hits produce a crash sound, including the bell. All this happens while using the TRS cable connected to output B, which is the bell. Unlike using output A where hitting the bell produces a crash sound ALL the time, using output B does allow you to get a bell sound out of the bell trigger but there's too much cross talk. So I'm wondering if this can be massaged to produce a better sound.

My next question would be for the long term. Can I daisy chain the Dm10 to the 2box and trigger more sounds than the inputs of the 2box allow. That is, I want everything to come out of the 2 box and simply use the Dm10 to EXTEND its inputs. Is that possible?

Short answer is NO. You cannot hook an additional module or TMI to the 2Box module via MIDI and trigger more inputs/sounds. You can only trigger the same sounds that are already assigned to each trigger input of the 2Box module.
I use 2 Drumit Five inputs, that gives you Monster kit capability. When the Drumit Three is available ..... well I guess I'll add that into the mix as well.  :rock:


I'm not so sure about that. THis is what the manual has to say on page 14:


"Trigger-Channel
The DrumIt Five module has 10 jacks for pads. But there are up to 15 independent trigger channels available, since five of the drum channels are designed as Dual-Channels (SNARE, TOM 1 to TOM 4). These additional trigger channels are referred to as PERC 1 to PERC 5 (see table) and can be edited like the other drum channels. The additional channels can be controlled via both MIDI and pads.
"

Combined with what it says on page 19:

"Via the MIDI OUT - port, you can control an external MIDI sound module or send MIDI data from the module to a sequencer or other software. Connect the module for this purpose with a standard MIDI cable to the MIDI IN of the external device. Now the MIDI data generated by the pads is transmitted.
Vice versa you can use the MIDI IN port to control the module from an external controller or sequencer and thus use it as a sound source only. For this, connect the MIDI OUT of the external device to the MIDI IN of the DrumIt Five."

So it SEEMS you should be able to use up to 5 extra inputs to trigger sounds. I know the drum programming  software has them all tied up so in reality it shouldn't be any different than using splitters.

This is disappointing when compared to the Dm10, which of course it is ALL MIDI which makes things easier where you can add more sounds beyond the inputs of the module itself.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 05:37:28 PM by norseman »

Jman

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Re: 2box module flexibility
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2015, 05:48:09 PM »
You can trigger exactly how many zones the trigger inputs are capable of triggering. So whether you fill all the inputs and trigger all the zones or you trigger everything via MIDI. That is the limit. If you fill your inputs and trigger all zones via pads ..... plus add another module or TMI via MIDI in, the sounds you trigger from that additional module will be exactly what you are already triggering via your 2Box module trigger inputs. This is not a new subject. It has been posted on many times, years .... but try it yourself if you are not convinced ...

I could tell you where to stick that piezo! :D ;)
http://stealthdrums.com/