2box questions from a newbie

[fcvapor05]

Hello all.

I am a new member of the 2box forum.  I recently discovered 2box after searching far and wide for an electronic kit.

The situation I'm in is that my band has lost our former rehearsal/recording space and have relocated to a member's house, where playing an acoustic kit is no longer feasible.

I'd like to get into an electronic kit, and from everything I've read comparing 2box to Roland/Yamaha/et. al, it seems that the 2box kit is the best option, even compared to the Roland/Yamaha kits in the $5,000+ range.

I have a few questions that I'm hoping the members here can help me answer, before I make the plunge.

Hi hat setup- I currently play a DW 9000 two-leg HH stand. Is this HH stand compatible with the 2box setup?  I'd like to avoid the extra expense of the 2box HH stand if possible, and playing with the same HH stand and pedal I will use live on my acoustic kit is a major plus for me. 

With regard to the bass pedal- is there a recommendation from 2box (or based on the experience of members here) on the best beaters to use with the 2box bass drum head?  I play solid wood beaters on my acoustic kit, and I'm assuming solid wood beaters will destroy the mesh 2box head in short order.  Are the 2box foam beaters available separately? Is the 2box bass drum pad relatively stiff out of the box? Is it up to the task of playing with speed, without losing accuracy due to the bass drum pad flopping around?  On the other kits I've demo'd (roland/yamaha), this is a MAJOR problem.

Expandability- is there a retailer in the US that can supply additional drum/cymbal trigger pads?  I'd like to add at least 1 (possibly two..) additional cymbal pads to the base setup, but from shopping around it seems no one in the US sells them.  What's the max number of pads that can be added to the 2box?  My ideal setup would be the base kit plus two additional cymbals and an additional tom.

Recording- I've demo'd an older Yamaha kit, and done a few hours of recording with it.  Our band prefers to record all tracks live, as opposed to tracking everything individually.  With the electronic kit we used, latency was a major issue, to the point where we couldn't really jam together because of the delay between my actual playing and the delivery to the rest of the band.  Does the 2box have capability to be used in the fashion without a huge additional investment?  Forgive my ignorance, I am not extremely well versed in recording methods and technology used for digital drums- I know how to mic and record an acoustic kit well enough to get the job done, but recording with a digital kit is a new thing for me.

If the 2box isn't capable of this type of recording out of the box, are there any recommendations for additional tools that can get this done without a huge additional investment?  I'm very comfortable with the cost of the 2box kit, but I need the capability to record live, with the rest of the band, without spending much more than the cost of the kit itself.  Another $100-$200 would be tolerable, an additional $1000 would not be.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post.  I apologize if these questions have already been answered ad nauseum elsewhere in the forum.  I look forward to learning more about the 2box system, and recording in general.

[Lustar]

Hi,

Any standard HiHat stand should work with the 2box hats.

The bass drum pad won't really flop around but you'll probably want to find a way to make it more stable. You may also want to use a different bass pedal.

You can add an extra cymbal and an extra tom but to add a fourth cymbal you'll need to split one of the toms. This is done by plugging two pads in a tom input using a splitter cable. You lose the rim but you gain a pad (cymbal or another tom or percussion).

(anything similar to the Hosa YPP-117, 1/4 stereo male to separate 1/4 female tip/ring)

If you like the stock sounds you can record them directly. You can also import VST sounds in the module. The 2box can be recorded like you would record an acoustic, you have individual outputs on the back of the module. If you already have the equipment to record an acoustic kit you have what you need to record the 2box except maybe for a multicore cable.

[Murgen]

Welcome to the tribe

First of all, you can use your own snare standard, hihatstand and kickpedal. Yours are probably much better than 2Box' but apart from a missing springtension adjuster in the hihatstand the stock items are not too bad either.

I use a beater from Pearl which is also made out of wood. I strongly suggest you to replace the kickpad head >> edit thanx fulrmr << by a double layered replacement from 682drums. Works for me. You can lower the trigger setting a wee bit to avoid double triggers on the kick.

My kickpad has been fixated by an extra frontbar, a clamp with a rod with a rubber feet (Pearl bassdrum cowbell mount refurbished) keeping/pushing the pad in place. Works since summer 2012 without issues.

[Murgen]

The 2Box module has 6 outputs you can address yourself, mono jacks, and I plug #1 and #2 into my mixer and record from there.

[fulrmr]

Welcome to the forum! All goo advise so far.  I'm pretty sure Murgen meant that you should replace the mesh head on he kick pad not the whole pads itself. Your stand should work great for the hats.

Cymbalism will have extra pads and cymbals for your kit.

http://stores.cymbalismmusic.com/2box-drumit-5-electronic-cymbal-and-drum-pads/

Don't let all the talk about securing the kick bother you either. It's a smple fix or you could just do a quick DIY kick build if you want something a bit more substantial than a standard pad. A kick build is by far the simplest build one could take on...even for the non experienced.

Have fun!

[fishmonkey]

Recording- I've demo'd an older Yamaha kit, and done a few hours of recording with it.  Our band prefers to record all tracks live, as opposed to tracking everything individually.  With the electronic kit we used, latency was a major issue, to the point where we couldn't really jam together because of the delay between my actual playing and the delivery to the rest of the band.  Does the 2box have capability to be used in the fashion without a huge additional investment?

if you are recording the analog audio outputs from the 2Box module, the latency is low enough that group tracking should be no problem.

if you are using the MIDI output to trigger VST drum samplers on a computer, then there will be more latency. still possibly usable that way, but only if the computer, audio and MIDI interfaces are fast and well configured...

[fcvapor05]

Perfect- thank you for all the replies everyone!

Yes, I have pretty nice hardware so I'd like to re-use that stuff.

The capability the 2box has, to use VST-quality samples internally without going through MIDI, is the major attraction for me.  From what y'all are saying, using a custom-sampled kit in the controller and then simple recording through the stereo output will be very easy.  Sounds like a cinch.

Also, if I'm hearing everything correctly, there's 2 free inputs in addition to the base kit, so the base kit + 2 cymbals would be no problem then?

If the split-tom method is used, do you lose the 3-zone triggering/choke function on the 4th cymbal?

With regard to the replacement kick head- do you have a link to an exact model to recommend?  Still learning about heads for e-kits.. this is a whole new world for me.  What's the real volume level like on the replacement head?  We need pretty much the quietest kit we can get.

Also, I just read a snippet that the US 2box kits come with rubber heads instead of mesh.  Are these heads significantly louder and/or not as good as far as feel compared to the mesh?  Is is worth it to put mesh heads on the kit right away?

Thanks again for the help guys.

[Murgen]

Roland US inc has a patent on anything with a piezo, foam and meshhead. That is why 2Box delivers default with rubber heads. Most drummers replace those with mesh heads. There is some consensus on this forum on replacement heads. Webshop 682drums is one of those. But there are more replacements in the market. Check the forum.

http://www.682drums.com/strongMesh-Heads-for-2BOX-strong-c-264.html 

The 2Box meshheads are not bad, quite good in fact, I still have mine on my tom pads for 2,5 years now, still in good shape.

I use the extra inputs for a 4th tom and a cymbal. No problem at all. Getting the hihat settings sorted out is in my opinion the hardest part. The concept is great and promising (magnetic sensor) but I never got it 100%. I use GEN16 hihat which is prolly a wee bit more noisy but much more natural to play on.

Take care!

[fcvapor05]

Welp, took the plunge today.  Ordered the 2box kit sans hardware from GC, should be here later this week!

Also scored an additional 2box cymbal from eBay for a song.  I'm thinking I might actually want a 4th cymbal instead of adding another tom, so I need to figure out what the pros and cons of that are.

Also, anyone have pics or is there a pre-existing thread discussing kick pad reinforcement?  Still curious about that.  I've played acoustic for quite some time now, and have lots of clamps and odds and ends around, so hopefully I can make something up from what I've already got that will work.

[Murgen]

My re enforcement is on this forum, if you can't find the post I will re submit and bore all others to death.

[fcvapor05]

So, I've officially had my 2box kit for about 5 days.  Today the band got together and did a little light recording.

I have to say, from the standpoint of sound, I'm blown away by this kit.  The quality of the pads, the feel, the ease of making on-the-fly adjustments on the box itself, are all amazing.  I'm VERY happy with this purchase.

I also have to say.... the rack that comes with this kit (at least the one that was boxed with my kit...) is an utter piece of garbage.

When my kit arrived, one of the hinged studs on one end of both one long rack bar and one short bar were totally stripped, Making both bars useless.  Luckily, I was able to set up the kit with only one of the side 'wings' attached, and swap one of the end clamps from the one short bar onto that long bar so that the kit could be played.

Also, one of the mounting clamps, the little plastic ball was somehow made incorrectly; the hole in the center for the mounting rod was way too small, which made it completely impossible to put the wing nut on the bolt with a rod mounted.  If I insert any of the tom, cymbal, or unit mounting rods into this clamp, it will not close enough for the wing nut to engage the bolt.  Even if I take the plastic ball out of the clamp, the rod cannot be pushed all the way through the ball- the hole is too small.

I also managed to strip one of the bolts on another one of the mounting clamps, but tightening it slightly.  I again was lucky that my hi-hat has legs and doesn't need to be clamped to the rack; If I needed support for my hihat, I would have needed to use the other short bar, and the rack would have been completely useless.  Even now, my 2box controller is sitting on a pile of boxes since I don't have a way to clamp it to the rack.

Overall, VERY disappointed with the quality of this rack.  The sounds, the pads, the hi-hat mechanism, the box, the heads, the feel (especially choke-ability) of the cymbals, all really really awesome.

The rack?  Hot garbage.

All in all, I'm still happy with my purchase- the sound is the most important part to me.  However, I'm hoping a call or email to 2box will help with some rack parts.  Having a brand new rack show up in near-unusable condition was very disappointing.

[HasseFX]

...well I got my kit Friday - probably out of the same batch - and I struggled with the rack for hours, most time devoted to two of the clamps, as I reported in another post.

[fcvapor05]

I emailed 2box support and Hoshino support right before my last post.  Heard back from 2box within 6 hours.  Still haven't heard from Hoshino- I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt because of the holiday week.

I will update this thread once I hear back from Hoshino.

[wildhorse5678]

Rather shocked at negative comments about the rack.  In the last few weeks i bought a mk11 rack from uk distributor plus some additional rack clamps from Thomann in Germany ... And no problems. The rack looks ultra stylish and very useable. Are you sure the usa dealer sent you new parts not damaged or returned goods.   I wluld add that the hole in the ball of the clamps were a bit tight but i presumed that was to stop them getting worn out and ending up too loose . 

[fcvapor05]

Heard back from Hoshino, they are sending me replacement parts.

I was disappointed with the quality of the rack, but the customer service from both 2box and Hoshino has been very good.