Future of 2box

[Renegator]

Hemi - I get your frustration, and it might not be just because my life gets stressful at times. I think it also has to do with seeing something good and wanting it to succeed and to enhance your life. I think it is innately human to want to see success and to want to enhance one's life.

Daniel made a good point about businesses overextending. I can't remember names at this time, but my local paper's business section occasionally has a story about a company going belly up because it expanded too quickly (e.g., by buying new equipment to increase production) and then not having enough sales to be able to make the payments on the loans that were needed to expand.

But we all know we don't really know what is going on. Is Hoshino going slowly because production wouldn't be able to keep up with demand? Is 2box going slowly because they don't want marketing expenses to grow faster than revenue? Or is it just a case of dysfunctional management? People come and people go. Viable businesses sometimes become dysfunctional when the wrong people arrive or stay and the right people leave...

Or is it that 2box has decided that soft drinks, wifi, and snacks are what they really want to invest in?

[hemiboy]

Hey Renegator, Where you been. Haven't seen you around for a while. Yeah, I am sometimes too passionate when I believe in something. I definitely like getting different ideas from all you peeps with more experience than me. I really feel that in this case the problem is insufficient amount of capital to do this great product  justice. I concede that many great companies started out small so I just hope  that 2box gets the breaks they need to take off like wildfire. I have been thinking about a few things tat Danoh and Fulmer said about the ownership of this company. This guy has been around since the 80's , has watched his competition from the gate as well. Which means he knows all their weaknesses as well as strengths. So, that means that I don't know what he knows.  I felt that the open sound system and pricing really well promoted would have grabbed the attention of some of Roland's customers, but they didn't get the product here. I also believe you gotta strike while the iron is hot and it could be cooling off a little. Roland has had a lot of time to answer 2 box   I believe that if Roland comes out with an open sound system and delivers realistic sounds like 2 box, that 2 box is in peril, we will see. Only Roland's goofy pricing would prevent this

[Dänoh]

Or is it that 2box has decided that soft drinks, wifi, and snacks are what they really want to invest in?

      

[fulrmr]

Yeah Dan and Danoh , I guess they have to proceed slowly, with today's available capital only, not  Let's see what happens going into a mass of borrowed funds because what that is called , even if is not formally mentioned, taking on partners. I have to admit  that the little bit that I have experienced with advertising, is that it is super expensive!  I also am going to take this opportunity to resign as Director Of Operations for the 2 Box Company. I have been going thru some rough stuff in my personal life  and a lot of anger has been coming out all over.  I went thru  my recent posts, and I realized that I am out of my f-----g mind. Sorry for the rants guys. Instead of looking at the glasses as half full instead of half empty, I have been smashing all the glasses, yours, mine, everybody's! Trying to fasten myself securely back  to reality today, looking for a strong enough chain, and a muzzle to go with it. Hey Dan, you remember the Yugo, good man!

Breathe man. It's all good. This it what discussion forums are for. I for one enjoy an "energetic" civil debate. We all walk the edge from time to time because of whatever reasons. Hope things level out at home for you quickly.


As far as evaporation point of some companies...That's just it...I really don't recall the ones that have disappeared completely over all the years...but recently......maybe the Pearl Pro pads...the elusive DITI(that may very well be crawling out from under a rock...maybe)..Alesis with the DM10 that made great promises, and then abandoned it...the DMDock(another elusive animal)...I'm sure there are plenty  more...but you get my point....right?

[Murgen]

I'm more afraid Zildjian will ditch the Gen16 then 2Box going out of business ....

[mcrackins]

I think it would be great if they had a larger presence, but that isn't always a good thing. 

Target came into Canada and took over 124 Zellers stores and renovated/rebranded those stores. They did it in a very short time. They have been hampered by supply problems, data breach etc. and lost 941 million dollars. The reason why Canucks like Target across the border was variety and cost. They didn't translate those things that people like to the Target Canada stores. - http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/target-canada-loses-941m-in-2013-weighing-on-u-s-profit-1.2551942

I'd be happy if they continue to improve upon the product and keep up with demand and mostly stay in business. Maybe getting a few high profile drummer endorsements would help US penetration.

If they've sold 5000 kits so far, that's roughly 10 million dollars in sales. Probably cut that in half of what they actually get due to mark-up, distribution, manufacturing. That is probably not even the marketing budget of Yamaha/Roland.

[hemiboy]

I would think that some high profile drummer endorsements would be great for 2box. Who do we nominate? I am sure there are quite a few drummers we could pick. Do you think it should be somebody already established for years like Peart or maybe Travis Barker or somebody playing with a classic rock band  like Zak Starkey

[digitalDrummer]

2box is competing in market served by some successful manufacturers with significant R&D capability, established distribution channels, marketing expertise and deep pockets.
It is very tough for a small start-up Scandinavian outfit to compete, even with a great product. In fact, a great product is just the start of success. Long-term survival will depend on distribution, pricing and promotion (marketing) as well as continued product differentiation. I hope 2box survives, but it's hard to see how it will unless it addresses all of the bases.

[hemiboy]

Some of us, including me, thought they should go for broke now,  to have any shot of making it. But after carefully listening to Dan, Danoh, and others, I am looking at it a little differently now. Because of 2 box being a smaller company anod not having the financial clout behind them to spend the kind of money that  the biggies, Roland and Yamaha have, they probably have to take it slow or they might get gobbled up! They have done what they could up to this point, with a lot of  problems, the patent thing, the production delays, but because the product is so good and priced so right at least at this point, that is their best reasons for survival. I am just a hacker, but " Real Musicians"can definitely attest to the technology and quality of this bugger! So if it takes off with gigging musicians and some of them become spokespeople like Johnny Rabb, Gregg Bisonette,  Thomas Lang, and  Michael Shack have done for Roland,and Kenny Aranoff ( misspelled?) for Yamaha, that might help. Let's see!  I only know one thing for sure! Hemiboy is having a good time drumming with 2 Box! Take that Roland and Yamaha!

[hemiboy]

I forgot to ask you guys what big name drummer is sponsored  by Tama, anybody? That might be a likely candidate to promote 2 box

[fulrmr]

I forgot to ask you guys what big name drummer is sponsored  by Tama, anybody? That might be a likely candidate to promote 2 box

Portnoy for one...but here's a list:

http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/artist/list10.php?area=2

[digitalDrummer]

Hemi, this touches a nerve every time. Tama and 2box have nothing to do with each other. Hoshino, which distributes Tama (and Ibanez) in the US, has an agreement to distribute 2box. Tama would not want to jeopardise its reputation by using its endorsees to promote an alternative brand.

[hemiboy]

My bad, so busy trying to recruit a pro drummer to endorse 2 box, I forgot that Tama  and 2 box  have only their distributor in common and otherwise are not affiliated. Can I plead insanity and throw myself at the mercy of the court. Lol? Who knows, there may come a time , when Tama and all the rest of the acoustic drum manufacturers come begging to be affiliated with 2 box! With the growth of the acoustic hybrid market, it is not that  far fetched, right?

[fulrmr]

Tama would not want to jeopardise its reputation by using its endorsees to promote an alternative brand.

I doubt you know that for sure, however I do see your side. Frankly, though, I wouldn't think Tama would be threatened by 2Box cutting into it's sales any more than Yamaha is threatened by Gen16. That said...I'm sure if any of these big names wanted to endorse 2Box.....Tama would have very little to say about it. Though I guess I couldn't be sure about that either.

[hemiboy]

Murgen, I don't know too much at all about the Gen 16's Do you play yours triggered or stock?  I like the looks of the buffed bronze but I can't   and wouldn't come up with that kinda scratch for them right now. I would like to buy a set used down the road and trigger them though. I take it that the Gen's haven't sold great, is that right?