3-Zone cymbal alternative.

[Jovato]

Has nobody built or modified a third party cymbal with 3 zones that has better bell triggering than the 2Box cymbals?

[joeysculla]

HI all - I'm gonna bump this thread rather than starting a new one ... am I the only one that thinks that the 2box is probably the very best electronic drumkit made to date, BUT that the cymbals are a bit crap?

Choking is inconsistent to say the least, even after about 50 hours tinkering with the HH settings I'd say it is only passably playable compared with a real set of HHs and (as per OP) I really think that the bell triggering for the ride is quite poor ... the ride settings in general don't allow for normal playing IMHO.

Currently, I'm using a real live ride and micing it up old-school 'cos I just don't trust the playability of the 2box ride.

Keen to find alternative cymbals.

/end rant

[Nico]

They are OK for crash, but for ride I prefer my old Yamaha pcy-150s (modified). I only have bell and bow but seperation and sensitivity is very good. I have tested the Gen16 ride, they play great but too much noise for me, soundwise not as good as samples and too expensive. I will keep an eye on Triggera cymbals, they plan to make a 17" ride.
For the hihat, calibration is important and a good hihat stand makes a big difference. However I also believe there is still room for improvements.

[Greg the groove]

Would the Roland CY15R MG work well as a ride on the 2box? It's a great cymbal pad on the Td30.

[Nico]

Would the Roland CY15R MG work well as a ride on the 2box? It's a great cymbal pad on the Td30.

should work as 2-zone, see topic V-Cymbals:
http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1303.0

[Jman]

The 2Box cymbal is technically a 2 zone trigger. Piezo and Switch. In the module when set to the 2Box trigger type Cym12 or Cym14 three sounds can be triggered. Bow and Bell are determined by Velocity, hardest velocities as bell sounds, lesser velocity as bow sounds. Edge sounds occur when the edge switch is triggered. Choke determined by continued closed switch (squeezing/holding edge).

As far as rubber electronic cymbals:
With the piezo placed in the bell (as 2Box cymbals have) the bell/bow velocity switching detection is more natural than with a cymbal like a Roland Cy-14 for example with the piezo in the bow area. The hardest hits naturally come from the bell area if the piezo placement is in the bell. A Cy-14 can produce the 3 sounds, but hard hits on the bow will produce bell sounds. The Cym12 or Cym14 trigger type settings in the 2Box module work pretty well for the 2Box style trigger system and are designed for it. You can get decent bell/bow/edge response. But as far as playing the bell with very light hits, you will most likely not be able to set that up to perfection ..... you could get the bell to work that way, but you will also end up triggering some bell sounds when hitting the bow hard. Reverse is also true, if the trigger parameters are set so the bell hits are only detected via very hard hits .... you will get some unwanted bow sounds when playing the bell. With the latest OS 1.26 and the cymbal settings adjusted properly I think the Bow/Bell/Edge play is very acceptable.

Using the module's CyCup or CyEdg trigger types:

With the CyCup trigger choice electronic cymbals like the Roland CY-12R/C or CY-15R (using Bow/Bell jack), or Yamaha Pcy135/155 can be used with nice Bow and Bell response, no edge sound or choke. Since the cymbals have a switch in the Bell area and piezo in the Bow area you are no longer relying on the velocity switching to determine Bow or Bell sounds. You will only get Bell sounds when you hit the bell area and activate that switch.

With the CyEdg trigger choice typical 2 zone Piezo/Switch Bow/Edge cymbals like the Roland CY-5, CY-8, CY-14 etc. or 3 zone cymbals like the CY-15R (using the Bow/Edge jack) or the Yamaha PCY135/155 can be used with Bow sounds, Edge sounds and choke. No bell sounds to worry about. Typically this would be used for your crashes if you don't care about, or want bell sounds from the crashes.

There are simple DIY mods that can be done with the Yamaha cymbals for better response in Manfred's thread here: http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1010.0

[Greg the groove]

Cool JMan, so for my crashes using the Roland CY14s, I use CYEdge? So I can get a crash sound and choke correct?

And for the ride I know I won't get 3 zones, which is fine, so I use CYCup with my Roland CY15R Correct?

[Jman]

Cool JMan, so for my crashes using the Roland CY14s, I use CYEdge? So I can get a crash sound and choke correct?

And for the ride I know I won't get 3 zones, which is fine, so I use CYCup with my Roland CY15R Correct?

Correct. CY-14 with CyEdg setting gives you Bow/Edge/Choke (just like a Roland module). CY-15R you use the Bow/Bell jack of the cymbal set to CyCup in the 2Box module trigger type and you will get Bow and Bell sounds.

[joeysculla]

This looks like a good size (16") and is certainly look as if the playing feel would be great. http://alesis.com/surgeridewchoke

Anyone used them? Are they any good? Do they seem to work well with the 2-box module?

[milojko]

They're not so great cymbals, according to reviews on the net.
Also, I doubt the bell would work on 2box ...

[Dänoh]

The Surge's appear to be a bit hot in the bow area, and responsiveness is limited to a very narrow surface-range. They are noisier than a Yamaha or Roland rubber cymbal, that's for sure.

Check out the February 2012-issue of 'Digital Drummer' magazine. There is a in-depth comparison about e-ride cymbals in there!


Surge is on page 18:
http://issuu.com/digitaldrummer/docs/digitaldrummer_february_2012_issuu_part1


Also, in the February '11 issue is an article about stick-noise - with dB figures!
See page 27:
http://issuu.com/digitaldrummer/docs/digitaldrummerfebruary2011



HTH

[joeysculla]

Thanks for the tip man. Any suggestions of an appropriate alternative ride would be appreciated.

On a related topic - does anyone use the Roland CY-5 as a Hi Hat? I have just bought one (waiting for it to be shipped) as I had read somewhere that they were better than the 2box stock Hi Hat. http://www.zzounds.com/item--ROLCY5

Does it work basically the same as the 2box or does it need a bunch of configuring.

[edtc]

Thanks for the tip man. Any suggestions of an appropriate alternative ride would be appreciated.

On a related topic - does anyone use the Roland CY-5 as a Hi Hat? I have just bought one (waiting for it to be shipped) as I had read somewhere that they were better than the 2box stock Hi Hat. http://www.zzounds.com/item--ROLCY5

Does it work basically the same as the 2box or does it need a bunch of configuring.

hi

i use a CY5 as second hihat ... it s ok , but i cant compare it with the 2BOX hihat , i never try one....   you must know that CY5 ( or any piezo/switch e-cymbal) dont work as hihat out of the box .... for this you must add a special HH controller ...  search the forum with "DIY hihat" , there is plenty to read about that ....

The CY5 acts well , you have bow and edge zones ....

I prefere from far the feeling and the sound of my main Hihat , but it s a real acoustic 13"UFIP ....but my neighbour dont....

For the ride , a simple old 14" crappy cymbal with a piezo under the bell will do a responsive 2 zone ride .... someone posted on this here .... i did one myself and am very happy with it ...

If bell is important for you , i suggest the YAMAHA pcy 155 with manfred s mod , using cycup mode ....

[Hockeylifer]

I read about hihat issues with the 2Box and scratch my head because mine works fine.  Is it as good as my acoustic's hihat?  Not really but I just adjust my playing in order to compensate for the loss of certain subtle sounds.  Then again, it could also be that I don't play high energy music like heavy rock or metal so I haven't tested the limits of hardware.

[Progdrummer]

Sorry guys if I'm slightly off-topic but... is there a way to avoid triggering the bow when playing the ride cymbal? My setup is 4M and the bell works just fine but when I'm swinging on the cymbal I accidentally trigger the bow sound too often, ruining the whole performance.

Thanks and sorry!