Rob's 2Box DIY Ludwig Kit

[ROB219]

Only useful to you if you're using an acoustic cymbal. It will come off for me to use with E cymbals. They just slide off, leaving the inner to attach whatever type of mount you like really, the Roland one pictured is what the Mapex arm will look like with the cymbal rubbers removed.
This particular series uses rubber instead of felt, I've owned them in the past and they're not bad, but in no way really useful for an electronic cymbal.

Takes all of... 5 seconds... to remove it....

[signature]

Yes they are just the standard acoustic cymbal holders. The Cymbal fits between the two half spheres. I have a Mapex acoustic set, exactly the same. They are very tidy.

[BURNIN AMBITION]

yes i am talking about acoustic cymbals. i dont have a full acoustic set, but i have 13awesome acoustic cymbals to use with my band and an amazing snare. along with my eliminators 2002b its all i need i wont bother buying a kickand toms right now.... so it is for one cymbal. so it wont do for me. after all i dont put the upper felt on my crashes. cause i need them to move freely to absorb less energy

[BURNIN AMBITION]

rob hi
i have some questions
the rubber u used to cover your acoustic cymbal, where did you get it from?
i want to do something similar, thats why i ask this.
also the piezo and the jack you solded the piezo into, and its box, can you tell me their name? how i can search them in ebay? what name do you use?
ok the piezo is "piezo" but the jack that you sold with the piezo, what is it called?
and a more technical one
i do not want to start drilling etc.you think from your experience that if i aply a little foam underneath the cymbal and attach the piezo under it, will this do the job? thank you
ps. does it matter, which piezo wire (from the 2) i solder, in which of the solder places od the jack?

[ROB219]

Ok, the rubber is just 3mm (1/8") thick rubber sheet. Where you would buy it locally I don't know but here in Australia is is readily available at hardware stores and rubber suppliers. You should be able to get it off ebay, but be warned it has a lot of mass to it, and hence its heavy so shipping cost could become a factor.

I don't know where you live, but I would try a local harware first. It is glued to the cymbal top surface using a contact adhesive. The same stuff that used to glue laminate sheets to benchtops in kitchens.
You will need to rough up the surface of both the cymbal AND the underside of the rubber sheet BEFORE applying any glue... and I mean ROUGH it up!!! The rougher the better as this creates a greater surface area for the glue and you get a better result.
Use a 36 to 80 grit sandpaper on an electric sander to make the job fast. Or, if you are careful use an angle grinder like I did to mark as much of the cymbal surface as possible. I didn't care as I was never going to use it as an acoustic cymbal ever again. If you go this way... just be gentle with it and take your time to get as much of the cymbal surface as possible.
Regarding the electronics, the "jack" is exactly that.... a jack. Search for a 1/4" or 6.5mm female jack socket.
The box I used is an extruded aluminium project box... sometimes called "jiffy" boxes. PVC is also ok to use but a bit trickier to work with, as it can split easily when drilling if you're not careful.
You "could" just attach the whole lot under an acoustic cymbal using GOOD quality double side tape (DST)

3M is probably some the best going... get the extra heavy duty stuff as is sticks a lot better. Speaking of which.. be sure to clean the surface of the cymbal with thinners or a wax & grease remover before attaching any DST to it... the smallest amount of dirt film will mean adhesion failure.

I solder the ceramic part (centre) of the piezo to the "tip" of the jack socket, and the outer brass part goes to the sleeve. NO ring! MONO plugs only when using a single piezo.

[BURNIN AMBITION]

mate you are awesome. and that is very very informative and helpful
ok i will either make an acoustic cymbal this way (i will try and get very very cheap, damaged splashes), or  iwill buy (and my buddy will fetch em) pintech cymbals that have no electronics on them , andtransform them
http://www.hopedrums.com/xt_cymbals.htm
the cost 12 dollars. i am guessing that the acoustic cymbal plus the rubber sheet might cost more. ill search and decide

while you answered me, i came across this site
http://mikemx3000.tripod.com/id10.html
this guy used 3 piezos, instead of one, all parallel together. for better sensitivity. you think this is necessary? if one piezo will do, i will stick with it

the only thing i didnt understand is you last sentence (sorry for my english, i am greek)

. NO ring! MONO plugs only when using a single piezo.

what do you mean? you mean that i have to buy a mono piezo? are there stereo piezos?
(i want a single zone cymbal btw, no 2zone or 3zone. a choke function for my china would be nice, but i dont know if it will work, cause the output i will use will be from a splitted tom)...

piezos have 2 wires right?
the jack has 3 places so i am avoiding one of the three? i mixed it up a bit. all piezos are thesame? i dont mind to pay a bit more of the piezo will be better.
thank you for everything.
ps. is the orange colour you used, some splecial paint? a brush and some paint will also do it for me, or do i need to spray it?

ps2. thanx for everything
ps3. how did you manage to put the rubber on the edge of the cymbal, and make it look good? it seems awesome, and it must be very difficult...

[fishmonkey]

actually the metric equivalent of a 1/4" jack is 6.25mm.

jack plugs & sockets come in two main varieties, mono jacks have only a tip & sleeve, and are commonly referred to as TS jacks. these are generally used to carry a one signal and a ground, e.g.:



the other main variety of jack are TRS jacks (tip, ring, and sleeve). these have 3 separate connections and are used for stereo connections, balanced connections, and for Y-cables for mixing desk insert points. e.g.:



the piezos are 'mono' in that they have only a single signal with a ground, so you only need a TS jack for those. you can use a TRS jack by not connecting the ring contact, however you need to be careful to do it right otherwise it won't work. also, TRS jacks are more expensive, and trickier to solder right.

note that if you are making your own Y-cables then you will need a TRS jack at the module end, so that the two separate trigger inputs merge onto the same input on the module...

[BURNIN AMBITION]

that clarifies everything thank you so much
i wont solder the cables i will buy them . thank you

[ROB219]

I posted up a demo on Youtube about the kit and some playing to demo the sounds. Skip to around 10 minutes in the hear the kit and see how it goes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdkyhPpDT5g

[Slap the drummer]

Great video! these kind of vids are always interesting....  that Tama Superstar is nice too 

[ROB219]

Hey guys... been a while since I posted anything in this thread. I've been doing things here and there.

A few changes I have made to the kit:

NO 2Box cymbals or HiHat on the module now. Crashes are all Yamaha, the HiHat is a Yamaha PCY135 as well, which rests on a custom made clutch designed to utilise the Yamaha rotation stopper.

The HiHat control module now lives as part of a DW5500 HiHat stand.

The module is now mainly black.

Anything that was ornage on the kit is now black.

A few pics:

[SHwoKing]

Wow the 2Box module in black is sleek !

Using a PCY-135 as a Hi hat is something I wanted to do as well and i was wondering how to place the anti rotation device on a regular Hi hat clutch. Now is the answer.

Why did you swap the 2Box Hi hat for a PCY-135 ? Is it for reliability ? Triggering ?

Thanks for sharing.

[ROB219]

A stock HH clutch may or may not work... they are a bit thinner than this one I custom machined.
It is thicker in diameter to allow foir the large hole that Yamaha put in the PCY135/155.

But give it a go with one and see what you think. You'll have to drill out the rotation stopper to the right size though.

I swapped out the stock HH for all of the things you mentioned. Its just plain better in every way.