Using it live, it would be good to be able to use headphones straight from the module and have enough headroom from it's output.
Quote from: waynec42 on July 10, 2011, 02:21:50 AM
Using it live, it would be good to be able to use headphones straight from the module and have enough headroom from it's output.
The output has plenty juice, you just have to use a pair of headphones with a lower impedance rating. I use Audio Technica ATH M50s, which are rated at 38ohm, and the volume is plenty loud.
The higher the impedance the harder the headphones will be to power, so check the impedance rating of the headphones you are using.
If its too high, an alternative would be to buy a headphone amp and boost the signal, either that or buy lower impedance headphones...
Quote from: Baby Samus on July 10, 2011, 05:49:49 AM
The output has plenty juice, you just have to use a pair of headphones with a lower impedance rating. I use Audio Technica ATH M50s, which are rated at 38ohm, and the volume is plenty loud.
The higher the impedance the harder the headphones will be to power, so check the impedance rating of the headphones you are using.
If its too high, an alternative would be to buy a headphone amp and boost the signal, either that or buy lower impedance headphones...
I'm using Sennheiser CX300-II. They are 16ohms. Still not loud enough when the guitarist has his amp 1m away from you turned up to 11.
I'll be using a small mixer in future to boost this signal. Should be ok, but still would be nice not to have to use another piece of equipment.
i'm sorry to say if you can't get enough volume with those in-ears then you are seriously damaging your hearing. even if you don't care about losing frequency response in your ears, tinnitus can be infuriatingly unpleasant and often impossible to treat.
i recommend you invest in some in-ears with very high noise attentuation, with custom ear-moulds if necessary...
Quote from: waynec42 on July 10, 2011, 07:48:32 AM
I'm using Sennheiser CX300-II. They are 16ohms. Still not loud enough when the guitarist has his amp 1m away from you turned up to 11.
I'm not surprised. Don't expect good sound from the CX 300 II's - they only cost £14 on Amazon, and they only have one puny driver! In other words they will sound awful with mostly anything (no offence) and are meant as cheap mp3 player headphones. They aren't meant to be used for monitoring. My headphones cost £130, and everything sounds amazing.
Compare:
Your headphones: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-II-Precision-Isolating-Ear-canal/dp/B001EZYMF4 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-II-Precision-Isolating-Ear-canal/dp/B001EZYMF4)
My headphones: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50s-Headphones-ear-cup/dp/B000ULAP4U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1310292419&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50s-Headphones-ear-cup/dp/B000ULAP4U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1310292419&sr=1-1)
I'm afraid in this case you get what you pay for...
We've got a review of buds and ear-in monitors coming up in August - testing everything from sub-$100 products to top-of-the-line custom moulds.
The magazine will be out in a couple of weeks and if you register now (for free), you'll get an email alert when it goes live.
Quote from: Baby Samus on July 10, 2011, 10:06:23 AM
I'm not surprised. Don't expect good sound from the CX 300 II's - they only cost £14 on Amazon, and they only have one puny driver! In other words they will sound awful with mostly anything (no offence) and are meant as cheap mp3 player headphones. They aren't meant to be used for monitoring. My headphones cost £130, and everything sounds amazing.
Compare:
Your headphones: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-II-Precision-Isolating-Ear-canal/dp/B001EZYMF4 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-II-Precision-Isolating-Ear-canal/dp/B001EZYMF4)
My headphones: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50s-Headphones-ear-cup/dp/B000ULAP4U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1310292419&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50s-Headphones-ear-cup/dp/B000ULAP4U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1310292419&sr=1-1)
I'm afraid in this case you get what you pay for...
Thanks for your thoughts, but I must disagree. You can't always go on price. The amazon price is very cheap. They retail for around $100 here in oz. That aside, they aren't audiophile quality, but they are very good for what they are. The biggest problem with your audio technica example is that they are not in-ear/ear-canal headphones. I own a number of different headphones like these, but went for the ear-canal type for comfort and noise isolation, which they do provide. I find normal headphones uncomfortable after extended wearing, especially because I wear glasses.
Unless there is something wrong with my 2box module (which wouldn't surprise me), I need the level flat out to over come the acoustic noise of the 2box, and it's still not very loud.
Quote from: fishmonkey on July 10, 2011, 09:30:54 AM
i'm sorry to say if you can't get enough volume with those in-ears then you are seriously damaging your hearing. even if you don't care about losing frequency response in your ears, tinnitus can be infuriatingly unpleasant and often impossible to treat.
i recommend you invest in some in-ears with very high noise attentuation, with custom ear-moulds if necessary...
As I've mentioned in another reply, there may be a problem with my module if I can't seem to get enough out if it.
In regards to ear damage, I do already have tinnitus - have had for many years, but all my hearing tests tell me that I have exceptional hearing for my age, and that's not taking into account I've been playing drums for 30 years. It should be a lot worse by all accounts.
Thanks for you opinion none the less.
Cheers.
Quote from: waynec42 on July 11, 2011, 07:46:06 AM
Thanks for your thoughts, but I must disagree. You can't always go on price. The amazon price is very cheap. They retail for around $100 here in oz. That aside, they aren't audiophile quality, but they are very good for what they are. The biggest problem with your audio technica example is that they are not in-ear/ear-canal headphones. I own a number of different headphones like these, but went for the ear-canal type for comfort and noise isolation, which they do provide. I find normal headphones uncomfortable after extended wearing, especially because I wear glasses.
Unless there is something wrong with my 2box module (which wouldn't surprise me), I need the level flat out to over come the acoustic noise of the 2box, and it's still not very loud.
Sure man you can disagree, but you are still incorrect. Firstly, the CX 300 II's are fine for a cheap MP3 player, as they were designed to be - they were never designed to deliver the frequencies associated with monitoring an instrument live, especially an instrument with big transients and wide frequency requirements. I have owned a pair of CX 300 II's that came with a walkman, and compared to my AT's, they sound like toys. You cannot expect high volume or quality sound from these headphones, as the driver isn't capable of it, secondly, no matter that the cost is AUS 100 where you are, it is £15 on Amazon here, which means they are among the cheapest headphones around.
So the main problems with what you are saying are:
The CX 300 simply doesn't have a wide frequency range, especially for producing drum sounds!
The drivers are not able to produce the power or volume you require.
They are cheap and not meant for this purpose, hence the probvlems above.
Check here to get a better idea of what people are using on e-drums:
http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?22683-Once-and-for-all-headphones (http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?22683-Once-and-for-all-headphones)
I would wager you will find that nobody on either this forum or V-drums.com are using CX 300 II's as monitors...and for good reason.
Even if you could get sufficient volume out of your present headphones it is kind of silly to listen through crappy phones when you have arguably the best sounding drum module available to date. I say crappy, because as Baby says they are not designed for monitoring edrum module sounds. Same reason you do not want to use a home stereo to amplify edrums ... the huge audio range especially the lows are too much to handle. Get a decent pair of headphones or IEM's and you will thank us! Plenty of edrummers have given direct feedback in the thread mentioned by Baby Samus of headphones they have used with edrums. That takes away a lot of the gamble and guesswork.... The experience behind the kit is a "night and day" difference when using low quality phones compared to quality phones .... Hearing is believing!
Quote from: Jman on July 11, 2011, 03:33:28 PM
Even if you could get sufficient volume out of your present headphones it is kind of silly to listen through crappy phones when you have arguably the best sounding drum module available to date. I say crappy, because as Baby says they are not designed for monitoring edrum module sounds. Same reason you do not want to use a home stereo to amplify edrums ... the huge audio range especially the lows are too much to handle. Get a decent pair of headphones or IEM's and you will thank us! Plenty of edrummers have given direct feedback in the thread mentioned by Baby Samus of headphones they have used with edrums. That takes away a lot of the gamble and guesswork.... The experience behind the kit is a "night and day" difference when using low quality phones compared to quality phones .... Hearing is believing!
I think everyone has missed my point.
Firstly, (and forgive my lack of correct jargon) if the headphone out was as powerful as a headphone amp out, that would mean you can use any set of headphones and get a reasonable level. That would be cool.
If you're talking quality, which I'm not, you'll need hi end headphones or IEM. I do appreciate the comments and feedback and yes it will help me choose something in the future.
Having spent all my cash on the kit (it took 6 months to get the whole kit - have I mentioned that before - do you sense I'm not happy having spent $3000 when I could have had that money reducing my mortgage for 6 months - anyhow, I digress), good quality IEMs are out of the question at present.
Regarding bang for buck, hear in oz $100 is a lot, in my opinion, to spend on headphones of CX300II quality. These are all I can afford right now, and for the price they are good quality. They do sound quite good comparatively speaking - again don't shoot me down here. Yes I know there's quaility and there's quality. If I spend $1500 on IEM's I will get a different level of quality. Any sales reps out there? - you would understand price point.
I suppose with all that said, my initial post is all I wanted to say. I don't want to start world war 3 here :)
So in closing, more level from headphone out would be cool, CX300II good for now for the price, and yes I should buy IEM's which I plan to do at some point in the future.
But I'm happy for someone out there to buy IEM's for me if your cashed up enough. I 'll let you know where to send them if you like :)
Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.
Quote from: waynec42 on July 11, 2011, 11:04:10 PM
Firstly, (and forgive my lack of correct jargon) if the headphone out was as powerful as a headphone amp out, that would mean you can use any set of headphones and get a reasonable level. That would be cool.
If you're talking quality, which I'm not, you'll need hi end headphones or IEM. I do appreciate the comments and feedback and yes it will help me choose something in the future.
fair enough, however good powerful headphone amps cost money, and very few devices that aren't dedicated headphone amps have headphone outs that can drive "any set of headphones".
also, there is a big range of headphones out there, and you don't need to go "hi-end" to get very good sound quality.
another thing is that impedance is only part of the story. you also need to take into account the efficiency of the driver/s, their frequency and time response, and how well they cope with higher levels before distorting. cheap headphones and speakers generally don't cope with higher power levels well, they easily distort.
Quote from: waynec42 on July 11, 2011, 11:04:10 PM
I think everyone has missed my point.
Firstly, (and forgive my lack of correct jargon) if the headphone out was as powerful as a headphone amp out, that would mean you can use any set of headphones and get a reasonable level. That would be cool.
If you're talking quality, which I'm not, you'll need hi end headphones or IEM. I do appreciate the comments and feedback and yes it will help me choose something in the future.
Having spent all my cash on the kit (it took 6 months to get the whole kit - have I mentioned that before - do you sense I'm not happy having spent $3000 when I could have had that money reducing my mortgage for 6 months - anyhow, I digress), good quality IEMs are out of the question at present.
Regarding bang for buck, hear in oz $100 is a lot, in my opinion, to spend on headphones of CX300II quality. These are all I can afford right now, and for the price they are good quality. They do sound quite good comparatively speaking - again don't shoot me down here. Yes I know there's quaility and there's quality. If I spend $1500 on IEM's I will get a different level of quality. Any sales reps out there? - you would understand price point.
I suppose with all that said, my initial post is all I wanted to say. I don't want to start world war 3 here :)
So in closing, more level from headphone out would be cool, CX300II good for now for the price, and yes I should buy IEM's which I plan to do at some point in the future.
But I'm happy for someone out there to buy IEM's for me if your cashed up enough. I 'll let you know where to send them if you like :)
Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.
Sorry Wayne, we're just trying to make you realise that the 2Box headphone output is actually perfectly capable of driving a wide range of headphones from a wide price range - the problem is not the output level on the module, the problem you have is that your headphones simply cannot reproduce many of the frequencies the 2Box produces.
Firstly, you say $100 is a lot to pay is Australia, I had a quick look and found this site:
http://headphones.com.au (http://headphones.com.au)
Now I might be mistaken and the prices are in US dollars and not Australian dollars, but it seems you can get much better headphones here, delivered for free, for $100.
For example, you can get the same headphones I have for $169: http://headphones.com.au/psingle?productID=319 (http://headphones.com.au/psingle?productID=319) They have great isolation with a nice tight seal, good volume, comfortable, balanced and easy to drive. When it comes to proper monitoring however, these are still considered cheap - midrange monitors - you can spend a lot more. Best bang for buck though imo and they will provide the volume and range the module is capable of.
If that website is correct, for proper monitors, $100 is
not a lot of money to spend on headphones in Australia, considering they sell pairs up to $1465, 15 times more expensive than the CX 300 II's, which cannot do the jobs you require.
Also, tell your guitarist to TURN IT DOWN. Why oh why do people always turn up full volume - everyone else has to turn up to full to match! Until you get proper headphones, ask everyone to turn down to 7 or 8, then maybe you all might hear better!
Quote from: Baby Samus on July 12, 2011, 01:45:18 AM
Sorry Wayne, we're just trying to make you realise that the 2Box headphone output is actually perfectly capable of driving a wide range of headphones from a wide price range - the problem is not the output level on the module, the problem you have is that your headphones simply cannot reproduce many of the frequencies the 2Box produces.
Firstly, you say $100 is a lot to pay is Australia, I had a quick look and found this site:
http://headphones.com.au (http://headphones.com.au)
Now I might be mistaken and the prices are in US dollars and not Australian dollars, but it seems you can get much better headphones here, delivered for free, for $100.
For example, you can get the same headphones I have for $169: http://headphones.com.au/psingle?productID=319 (http://headphones.com.au/psingle?productID=319) They have great isolation with a nice tight seal, good volume, comfortable, balanced and easy to drive. When it comes to proper monitoring however, these are still considered cheap - midrange monitors - you can spend a lot more. Best bang for buck though imo and they will provide the volume and range the module is capable of.
If that website is correct, for proper monitors, $100 is not a lot of money to spend on headphones in Australia, considering they sell pairs up to $1465, 15 times more expensive than the CX 300 II's, which cannot do the jobs you require.
Also, tell your guitarist to TURN IT DOWN. Why oh why do people always turn up full volume - everyone else has to turn up to full to match! Until you get proper headphones, ask everyone to turn down to 7 or 8, then maybe you all might hear better!
Baby,
They are closed headphones. Which of ear canal type would you recommend from that site? Obviously you have more money than I if you can say $100 is not a lot to spend on headphones. As I mentioned, I do intend to get IEM's at some stage but I need to feed my family first. :-)
I'm not flushed with funds. Took me a long time to save for the 2box. Just trying to do the best with what I have.
Wayne.
Well to be honest mate, if you need to feed the family and you're having trouble, you probably shouldn't have spent $3000 on a 2Box :)
If you want headphone advice, read through the pages and pages of information on the link I sent you before, thats how I came to my decision.
Quote from: Baby Samus on July 12, 2011, 08:15:05 AM
Well to be honest mate, if you need to feed the family and you're having trouble, you probably shouldn't have spent $3000 on a 2Box :)
If you want headphone advice, read through the pages and pages of information on the link I sent you before, thats how I came to my decision.
I can see you have still missed my point, so I will finish by again saying, thanks for comments, suggestions and advice.