Hi everybody !
First I wish you all a happy 2022 !
I'm new here but I've been using 2box since 2013 and recently I have had issues that I don't know how to solve. So I tought maybe around here someone would have a good idea about all this.
Here is my problem : I have an old drumit5 mark1 that I own since 2013 and I have decided to change my hit-hat. I've purchased an ATV adh-12 and the zourman conversion module. Everything works fine until I plug in something in the Line input or in the midi in or out. When I do that, the Hit hat starts behaving strangely and when I'm almost at the close position, the module starts to send again and again a footsplash loop at top velocity. Keeping the same opening settings and unplugging the line in or midi out and everything comes back to normal.... I've tested every piece of the chain, i've changed every cable, disconnect everything, I've send back the Hit Hat and the conversion module for replacement and it kept happening with the new hardware, so I've ordered a drumit3 module to test if my module was the problem, and the problem is still present with the drumit 3 module... I'm guessing it's related to the electrical power side of things but I'm out of ideas... I've tried pluging the module and the hit hat on different power sockets but nothing changes...
(I should say that when swapping the atv hats for the original 2box ones, everything works as it should even when line in and midi out are connected)
So here I'm am hoping that maybe someone around here have a fresh idea about all this and what can cause this issue. I have no intention to get an original 2box hats again because those are not greats and I use the hats quite a lot in my playing, but I'm thinking that in a last attempt I can try getting a Goedrum foot controller + the zourman conversion module for roland hats and try it that way, maybe whith no extra power needed for the Hit hat the problem can be solved.
So what do you think? Do you have any ideas about what is causing that ?
Thanks a lot !
Fancois
Hi!
Sorry to hear about your problems. Which serial number do your Zourman module have?
A few users have in the past been reporting problems with this kind of disturbance. Most often generated by the virtual earth between the systems...which starts to move. E.g. ATV is shooting power out from the hh ctr and 2box do the same...and the Zourman module have to handle this in the best way. Maybe we need to look on this serious for your environment and fix it!
Best regards
Anders / Zourman.com
Hi Anders !
Thanks for your quick reply!
The serial number of my module is the 1342-11-2020
I'll be glad if it can be fixed, because this issue put aside, everything works great and is really enjoyable to play.
Thanks again,
Best regards
François
I am doing some test trying to simulate problem in my environment to understand what is going.on.
Getting back to you.
Best regards
Anders / www.Zourman.com
Thanks again !
If you need more details or even a "wiring" diagram of my setup, I can make it for you.
Best regards
François
Please share...or if You pm me.
Best regards
Anders / Zourman.com
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M4Rk1TFKf1mdwKQ2edlJrTJaYSPh-TOh/view?usp=sharing
Here it is, I hope it's clear enough, if not let me know and I will correct it.
Best regards
François
No, it looks perfekt.
Checking with the same kind of setup.
Best regards
Andes / www.Zourman.com
Francios - I am still working on it - I have finally a similar setup compared to yours. (With a focusrite sound device etc)
Getting back to you during the weekend with my test results - and hopefully a quick fix!
Best regards
Anders / Zourman.com
Hi Anders !
Thanks a lot for your time and efforts !
Looking forward to learn about your results !
Fingers crossed for a quick fix too !
Best regards
François
Hi Francios.
I just set up my environment similar to yours. Scarlett 4/4, ATV AD-H14 HH, 2Box Five MKII (My MK1 is currently at the rehearsal studio), Zourman Hi-hat conversion for ATV HH - and connected the whole thing to my PC running Cubase. My MKII is connected with both midi (in/out) and 2 channels audio with the Scarlett 4/4 interface. All power connectors connected to the power socket. I am running on OS 1.36.3
However - my environment seems to be solid as rock. No glitches at all near the closed position.
I am going to connect my whole kit and try - and see if I am able to replicate the problem. Stay tuned!
Some video proofs on my first attempt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEUlYadieXY
Best Regards
Anders / www.zourman.com
Hi Anders
I've made a video showing what's going on in my setup for you here
https://youtu.be/oRa8GPZrPzw
(I forgot to tell in the video that the issue is the same when the computer is off and the cable is connected betwin the focusrite and the drumit5)
So far I've tryed and ruled out all of this :
Switching every cable
Plugin only the Hit hat
Reseting module
Switching to original drumit5 OS and Boot
Turning off the computer
Plugin the line in of the drumit5 to the line out of the motherboard of the computer
Plugin to a different computer
Plugin line in with a shorter cable (mine is 4,5 m)
Power every part of the system from different power sockets
Changing module for a drumit3
Changing atv hats for new ones
Changing Zourman conversion module for a new one
So far all of this don't resolve the issue.
I hope the video can help
Best regards
François
Hi Francious!
Fittest, Great video explanation.
I am going to try the focus ride headphone output in to my 2box and see if this can get my system to show the same symptoms.
If you raise the pfact value manually when you have the issues - by let's say 10-20 steps - do the issue stops then? (In general it looks like very low pfact and poff values after calibration on your system)
The computer is running on the same power outlet group?) And you get the same issue with Drumit Three?
Best regards
Anders
Hi !
I've tried raising the pfact value but the issue doesn't stop. My values are low I believe because I've removed the bottom cymbal of the hit hat ( that was to loud ) but even with it on, it is still doing the same issue.
My computer is plugged to a different power outlet and for what I can see this outlet is connected to a different phase all together to the electricity meter. Note that even when I unplug the computer from the wall and leave the connections between it and the drumit5 the issue stays.
The issues were exactly the same with the drumit3.
The only thing I came to think of, if you can't replicate the problem on your side, but I don't know if it can be relevant, is that before I moved from my previous appartment I had the same system and it was working decently until (as good as I can remember) the electricity provider changed my electricity meter for à new one that uses cpl technologies to mesure power consuption and sends it to a centrilised system. It is the same electric meter that I have now in my new appartment. I don't know much about electric systems so I can't say why this could change anything or not but this is the only difference I have found whith my previous installation. If you think it can be it, the meter is called Linky and is being deployed all over France by EDF ans RTE companies. I've found some technical data about it online if needed.
I really hope the issue is something simpler than this but it came to my mind yesterday and I thought I should mention it.
Looking foward to your test results
Best regards
François
That's good Francios.
Yes, you are right regarding the electrical environments impact on this. As you can see on many computer PSUs, especially for laptops...they have very often ferrites included on the cable to not create interference with other equipment. I am going to try this...if I am able to replicate the problem.
I am also going to change my environment for my setup and see if I am able to replicate the issue. If I am able to replicate it...then I am guessing it will not be too hard to find a solution.
Let me see a picture on your ATV PSU...just to see that they are using the same adapter as I am using with my aD-H14.
Let's solve this! :-)
Best regards
Anders / www.Zourman.com
Here is a picture of my ATV psu
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zw3UaoEJi_Ph3OHlttkemEOu3u5ruexR/view?usp=drivesdk
Best regards
Francois
Francoise D, I am still working on it. Sorry for the delay - but the big problem is to find an environment that shows the same kind of issues. It does not show on several tested environments as reported. However, It looks like that we have the same kind of ATV PSU. Maybe we should change your module - to see if the problems remains.
Best regards
Anders / Zourman.com
If anybody has problems with my products - i hope they contact me directly at info@zourman.com and we will work the issues out - just as we do in this post - where we try replicate a more complex scenario with the ATV hi-hat - which has a very special approach to simulate a Roland VH-11/VH-13...with power instead of resistance.
Best regards
Anders / www.Zourman.com
Hi Anders,
Thank you for the update ! I don't know if changing the module will make a difference since I already send back my first one to drumtec (this is the second unit I have). Let me know if you suceed in recreating the issue.
I'm still investigating it here and I've been thinking that a defect off my motherboard usb controller could be the source of the issue (like a ground shortening somewhere). I'm thinking about this because the issue is still present when the computer is unplugged from the wall (with the focusrite plugged in), but it disapears when the focusrite is disconnected from the computer (and I've tried it whith different USB cables). Also my computer is starting to get old so it seems possible that intense use have damaged it in some ways. I've ordered a small PCI usb controller to test this theory and I'm trying to borrow another computer all together (in case the problem is from the motherboard powering itself). I let you know as soon as I can what the results are.
Best regards
François
Hi best François!
Would you like to try something for me - in your complete environment:
1) Check the figure below - the red cables: Try to stick in a small cable of any size with an open leader connected to the sleeve part of the connector...and drag that cable to the 2box module hi-hat input in the same manner. (The black cables is the ordinary trs cables that you normally use)
The idea is to balance the virtual "Zero" ground between the systems to always be equal and get rid of all type of interferences that seems to going on. As said - we have two systems which shoots power against each other. 2Box are doing it for feeding the hi-hat electronics on the original hi-hat (and in my case - the Zourman module electronics)...and ATV are doing this also because ... I don´t know...(poor design) - as they claim to be complaint with Roland VH-11/VH-13 which only sends resistance. (But this is my thoughts as a designer :-) Anyhow this could definitely lead to problems in certain environments)
2) If this is not improving the situation - You could also add a second cable (which you connect to the first cable system somewhere) and connect that cable to the audio input(s) on the 2box module (in the same manner as above) - which you used as audio input from the computers audio card.
And report back the results, please.
(https://zourman.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Patch.png)
Best Regards
Anders / Zourman.com
Hi Anders,
I've tried what you've asked me and the results are the same for all configurations :
Cable from bottom ATV to 2box HH intput : The module is acting like there is no HH controller but the top cymbal is playable (full open hh sound)
Cable from bottom ATV to 2box Audio Line IN : Same results as above
Cable from bottom ATV to 2box HH input and cable from bottom ATV to box Audio Line IN : Same results as above.
(I've also recieved the USB controller for my motherboard and after installing and connecting the focusrite to it, it does not solve the problem either).
Best regards
François
Hi François.
Good to know - I need to really get this error to show in my environment...but I have a plan!
Just a small question - did you also try to do a new calibration when the patch test cable was in place?
e.g. the hh voltage range will differ completely when the patch cable is installed - so a recalibration is needed.
Best Regards
Anders / Zourman.com
Hi Anders,
I've tried doing a calibration after the patch and the results are:
Bottom ATV to 2box HH input : Module detects a HH and after calibration the issue is back as if there is no patch.
Bottom ATV to 2box HH input and Bottom ATV to 2box Line IN : Module detects a HH but after calibration, displays a "Rev" notification on the HH calibration page. After multiple tries the "Rev" message is still here and the HH controller is disable.
Best regards
François
Hi François!
That sounds really strange - regarding your results. Anyhow - I will change my environment completely and do some real hard tests measuring the signal with a oscilloscope- and see what's going and see if I can replicate the problem. (I will do this the upcoming weekend)
However - I have another suggestion - I think I read that you also had a DrumIt Three as well? I have another design for the ATV HH (Not official launched) which is uses the universal trigger interface instead (E.g. Rolands hh instead of 2box hh's architecture). This solution will only work on DrumIt Three/Five MKII and not the original 2box module. Would you be interested to test this design instead and see if you get a better result when connection all stuff like the audio and midi in your environment?
Best Regards
Anders / Zourman.com
Hi Anders,
Thanks again for your efforts, I hope I'm not causing you to much extra hours...
You've read right, I had a DrumitThree that I've ordered but only to try and see if my module was the origin of the problem, and since the issue was still there with the DrumitThree I've sent it back. So unfortunatelly I don't have a drumitThree anymore...
Best regards
François
Ok. Then I know.
We are going to nail this issue. :-)
Getting back during the weekend.
Best regards
Anders / www.Zourman.com
Hi Anders & François, I just registered as I was having troubles with my newly arrived AD H14/Zourman conversion box connected to my Fame Hybrid Pro which is a rebranded DrumIt 3. I am having the same machine gun like triggers when I'm about to close the hihat. In my case I'm having an amp connected and just because of this thread I disconnected et voilà it behaves as it should. The reason will be the same with François' kit: the ground connection from the power cable. Once connected it seams that some amount of current flows via the audio cable to the ground of the 2box, resulting in the strange trigger behaviour.
@François: I don't recommend to do so as it affects the electrical safety of your Focusrite, but I bet the behaviour disappears as soon as you disconnect the ground and operate the Focusrite just with the hot and the neutral leads of the mains cable.
@Anders: I hope you can come up with a better solution than my 'ground-lift' ;)
Cheers
Thorsten
Hi Thorsten,
Welcome to the thread and thanks for sharing your solutions !
Unfortunatly, I can't disconnect the ground connection on my focusrite because it's usb powered and cutting the ground will result in it not beeing detected by the computer. But I've already tried powering my computer whithout a ground connection and it's not working for me.
Cheers
François
But Thorsten found a way to simulator the problem. :-)
So i am on it...!
Best regards
Anders / www.Zourman.com
Why don't you get an edrumin4 and connect the atv hihat to it and send the midi to the 2box? the edrumin has better hihat control and works perfectly for me.
Hi !
I've never considered this option, I'm not really familiar with edrumin products but it looks like a serious option if you're just starting with a new hit-hat configuration.
For me it's too pricy tho. I already have all the hardware I need for it to work in theory and I'm really curious about fixing and understanding this issue. Hopefully with the clues Thorsten brought Anders can understand what is hapening and find a way to solve this.
Best regards
François