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2Box Drumit 5 Forum => General 2box Drumit 5 forum => Topic started by: Busa on September 04, 2021, 01:29:46 PM

Title: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: Busa on September 04, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
Hi

I just got the Drumit5 MKII (with ver 1.36.3)
I've set it up with a Roland VH-10, PD-128S, KT-10 and CY-12R.
After a little fiddling I got the triggering to work for each drum / pad. (PadPS - snare, CyPSB - ride, Kick2 - kick)

However, something strange happens when I play busier patterns, especially when stomping the hi-hat on 8ths, a fair amount of ghost notes and a 16th note pattern on the ride.
Sometimes the ride sound will drop out, sometimes a snare hit or two will come a little late .... in effect, what comes out of the headphones sounds like a very un-tight drummer (for a while I thought I had thoroughly lost it as a drummer but if I listen with the headphones off, I can hear that the hits themselves are correct)

Anyone have had the same experience ... and if so, how did you fix it?



Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: Karbonfaiba on September 04, 2021, 03:13:09 PM
Do these symptoms happen when playing with the KIT menu selected on page 1?

Do these symptoms get worse when playing on UNIT - Trig / KIT page 2?

The memory card is the cause of the lag for sure. Email 2box support, give them your S/N number and they should send you a new card in the post for free.

There is a polyphony limit on the 2box which can prematurely end sample playback, but it's quite high. I don't think that's what we are talking about here though.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: Busa on September 04, 2021, 04:39:38 PM
Hi

Thank you for the reply :)

I experience thins while on the KIT selection screen.

I found some tips elsewhere in this forum and set all triggers to "norm" (I had set them to "Lin1"). This helped a bit.
I also set X-talk to low/med and this seemed to help a bit too.

However, it is still not good ... to put it this way, I can't use it like it is now on a live gig (which is why I bought it)

I will send a request to 2bex email support like you suggest and see what they say
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: halftime on September 04, 2021, 07:20:53 PM
Yeah... I experienced the glitching with my original SD card on all samples. After changing the card, the 2box-provided samples play well, but I haven't been able to fully get rid of the problem with VST exports. You didn't mention if you use just built-in samples or custom samples, but in the case of built-in samples only, the SD card is a likely cause.

What made a significant improvement for me (even though it's still not perfect) was setting Mask = 2 to all pads, and for the kick pad, Voice = Mono in the Unit menu. Setting Decay to 10 instead of Infinite in the Kit menu may also help.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: Karbonfaiba on September 05, 2021, 12:11:18 AM
That's definitely subpar performance from your module, halftime. I really don't know what else to say.  :(

The extra performance tweaks shouldn't even be necessary imo - but we know they can help - from years of experimentation, from users who have owned a 2box far longer than myself.

Most days I just sit behind my kit, pick a VST I imported, play along to music (wavs of about 30-50 MB each) I would definitely notice any audio anomalies stressing the module like this, but I don't get dropouts. I get more annoyed by mixing levels and white noise hiss on incorrectly boosted low velocity layers by SDSE these days - basically rough areas I could fix if I could be bothered - bringing my library to Mimic Pro quality on 50 kits is a lot of work though.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: halftime on September 05, 2021, 06:54:55 AM
I think what I would need is having some expert with me in person to go through my pads, my module settings and my playing style to find out what is different with my kit that is causing these problems while others happily bash away with huge VST kits. I don't see that kind of scenario happening any time soon, though, so in the mean time, I'm only using 2box samples so I don't have to worry about the glitching. They are OK for my purposes, but it's just a bit frustrating to be unable to use the full potential of the module.

OK, enough of my ranting which has been going on in several threads already :D Hopefully Busa's issue will get solved.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: Busa on September 05, 2021, 12:18:23 PM
Thanx Halftime

Yeah ... I literally got the module yesterday and so everything I've tried is with factory sounds.
I'm gonna try the "new" card route and see where it leads

Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: HansT on September 05, 2021, 08:13:50 PM
Hi.

Suggest you buy a A1 Sd card (fat32 formated).

https://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=4957.0
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: ludman on September 10, 2021, 07:35:58 AM
I have the same experience as Busa! I have a  mk1 Drumit 5  with new stock sounds. It only happens when I play 8th or 16th notes on hi hat by foot. Why that? If it was a memory card problem why does it happen only when I play hi hat foot pedal?
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: Busa on September 12, 2021, 11:38:32 AM
Hi Ludman

Like has been alluded to in this thread, it is probably a card issue.

I contacted 2box directly via email and got a prompt response that they would send me a new card, so kudos to 2box for that.
You need to send them the serial numbers (I sent them for module and the card) and where you bought the module though.

However, the card is awaiting handling in customs, which takes time, so I decided to try things out with buying a 32GB SanDisk Ultra SDHC UHS-I Card.
It wasn't too expensive (around 20EUR in my local electronics shop). I then downloaded the two zip files from the 2box support page, installed the unzipped folders on the card and now the issues are gone! (at least for factory sounds, haven't tried with uploading my own samples yet)

So, again, it indeed seem to be a card issue.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: ludman on September 13, 2021, 07:21:58 AM
what are the zip files you're talking about? the card content or anything else?
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: Busa on September 13, 2021, 07:40:55 AM
Hi Ludman

In short, yes the card content
On the 2box site go to:
"Support" -> "Downloads Drumit Five MKII"
Then under "Card content" download folder 1 & 2

Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: ludman on September 13, 2021, 01:11:49 PM
ok thanks so much Busa.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: halftime on November 26, 2021, 08:48:17 PM
I had one more thought about the glitching issue. I have lately been using only 2box samples just so that I could play without having to worry about the module's performance. However, I now had a chance to try out some VST samples exported by someone else and there was no stuttering at all. Now, there are two clear differences to my previous experiments: 1) the VST samples are only for snare, bass and toms so the cymbal samples are all 2box, and 2) the tom samples have only one sound, so just head, no rim.

My thought is this: if the toms have no rim sample included, would it mean less processing for the module and hence smaller chance of glitching? Also, would splitting the tom inputs have the same effect? Those of you who use VST kits without issues: are you using the rims of your toms (for rim sounds or something else) or are they split to extend your kit? Does the rim make any difference?
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: ludman on November 27, 2021, 11:18:03 PM
I have changed the card as Busa told, the same card he uses. Not fixed the issue. The problem is the hi hat played by foot while doing a simple pattern. May I give up??Very disappointed!
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: Karbonfaiba on November 29, 2021, 07:24:54 PM
@halftime

All my toms are split on my 2box. Of those split toms, they are usually 2-zones, rimclick / rimshot. I don't think the amount of zones loaded on a kit seems to make a difference imo - as technically I have overloaded my kits with more zones than supported anyway; 4 to 6 zones per tom input.

@ludman

There is definitely something suspect with some VST hihats causing glitching. I have noticed when keeping time with footchicks (specifically, 4 on the floor) and doing patterns around the kit, seems to be the most bothersome for 2box.

It's most obvious for me on my CORE kit hihat which literally has every articulation populated with about 30-99 velocity layers. Only in combination with the bombarding of CC midi from the controller (keeping time) definitely sends it over the top. This is with a VH-11 btw.

I shall experiment by stripping down my CORE hihat in various ways to see if I can find out what exactly seems to be the cause here. It's diminishing returns with 99 layers and 7+7 levels of openness bow and edge anyway but I always knew it was a lolhat when I exported it. ;D Same goes for the ride actually, absurd file sizes from CORE, definitely stresses 2box when I play it. Symptoms like micro-stuttering of about 50ms every 5 seconds if I footsplash and play ride together.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: welshsteve on November 30, 2021, 12:31:44 PM
I have changed the card as Busa told, the same card he uses. Not fixed the issue. The problem is the hi hat played by foot while doing a simple pattern. May I give up??Very disappointed!

Oh this old complaint. I love the 2box system, but it was this that bugged me about it. How I got round it, I had 2 drumit3 modules. It was a pain, but in the end a blessing in disguise. I doubled my inputs, allowing me to have 2 crashes, a ride, china and splash and hihat on module and 4 toms, kick snare, a couple of a loop/sample triggers and a cross stick on the other, but also doubled my outs. Meaning my sound man was chuffed as I could give him all the pieces into the desk as separates.

But... sure, one module should be enough for a small kit.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: ludman on November 30, 2021, 04:23:43 PM
oh yes that could be a good and useful way to go...a bit expensive though! I wonder if ther is another simpler way to fix the problem with just one module...anyone at 2box.se could look after that please?thanks
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: halftime on February 15, 2022, 12:27:31 PM
I had one more thought about the glitching issue. I have lately been using only 2box samples just so that I could play without having to worry about the module's performance. However, I now had a chance to try out some VST samples exported by someone else and there was no stuttering at all. Now, there are two clear differences to my previous experiments: 1) the VST samples are only for snare, bass and toms so the cymbal samples are all 2box, and 2) the tom samples have only one sound, so just head, no rim.

My thought is this: if the toms have no rim sample included, would it mean less processing for the module and hence smaller chance of glitching? Also, would splitting the tom inputs have the same effect? Those of you who use VST kits without issues: are you using the rims of your toms (for rim sounds or something else) or are they split to extend your kit? Does the rim make any difference?

Coming back again to the glitching issue. Nothing major to report, but I have made some new observations. I thought before that the rim sounds might have something to do with the glitching, but it turned out not to be the case. I got to try the same samples as before, but with rims included, and they worked fine.

However, there was one major difference in the samples compared to my own exports that I didn't know about: the samples that work fine were not created with SDSE but manually. So, it would seem that there's something about the SDSE-generated files that makes them heavier than manually created files. What it is, I don't know yet. I'll try to see if there's something in SDSE's settings that might explain the difference when I have the chance.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: edcito on February 21, 2022, 06:41:57 AM
I don't think manually created kits will make any difference, it's been established that the 2box hardware is not capable of handling busy patterns, it's ideal for a beginner learning 4/4 AC/DC songs but once you want to go David Weckl things fall apart...

I've sent my SD3 samples created with SDSE to many experts around here, even to Rik, and they were all baffled since there is nothing wrong with these...

I tried to create a full kit from the Fields of Rock SD3 expansion manually in my mac and studio one but I saw that it would take me a lot of time to do it so I just drop the idea, but again, I don't think SDSE is the problem either.

Even karbonfaifa has admitted now that he has glitches, microglitches but he noticed them so....

Anders is happy with AD2, so he won't go and buy SD3 only to confirm what I've discovered almost 2 years ago with the speedlight kit....

I moved on from 2box, to a Roland TD-50X with digital Pads, triggering SD3 all the time, the most expensive controller I've owned.....

 
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: welshsteve on February 21, 2022, 01:10:57 PM
I don't think manually created kits will make any difference, it's been established that the 2box hardware is not capable of handling busy patterns, it's ideal for a beginner learning 4/4 AC/DC songs but once you want to go David Weckl things fall apart...

I've sent my SD3 samples created with SDSE to many experts around here, even to Rik, and they were all baffled since there is nothing wrong with these...

I tried to create a full kit from the Fields of Rock SD3 expansion manually in my mac and studio one but I saw that it would take me a lot of time to do it so I just drop the idea, but again, I don't think SDSE is the problem either.

Even karbonfaifa has admitted now that he has glitches, microglitches but he noticed them so....

Anders is happy with AD2, so he won't go and buy SD3 only to confirm what I've discovered almost 2 years ago with the speedlight kit....

I moved on from 2box, to a Roland TD-50X with digital Pads, triggering SD3 all the time, the most expensive controller I've owned.....

 

With the exception of the fantastic playability with the digital pads and cymbal, you'd have been better off with an edrumin10 or 2.

But if the digital pad is the attraction (and I can understand why) maybe a TD27? Just seems like a lot of money for, like you say, a controller for SD3
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: edcito on February 21, 2022, 03:47:25 PM
The only reason I don’t get a TD-27 instead is the really stupid Db-25 snake…
I wish there was a new td-12… TD-35 maybe…
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: halftime on February 21, 2022, 03:54:04 PM
I admit that I've occasionally considered changing the module to a Mimic or maybe an EFNOTE 5 to get rid of the performance issues. However, even with the built-in samples, the 2box just sounds better to me than any other module except the Mimic, so I'm not giving it up just yet. I'm still quite content with some of the native kits and they're enough for my home practice and the occasional drum cover video.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: edcito on March 26, 2022, 08:27:13 AM
With the exception of the fantastic playability with the digital pads and cymbal, you'd have been better off with an edrumin10 or 2.

But if the digital pad is the attraction (and I can understand why) maybe a TD27? Just seems like a lot of money for, like you say, a controller for SD3

What you're using now? a mimic pro no? I heard there is some rumours of pearl releasing something new for the mimic at the next UK drum show in April, will you be attending?

I sold the td-50X and got now 2 edrumins... 1 10 and 1 4, however if pearl comes up next week with something interesting I may consider a mimic...
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: welshsteve on April 02, 2022, 12:25:23 AM
Well, I have a couple of set ups.

Mimic pro is the main gigging gig with a Jobeky Pads/Cymbals but with Drone Halo triggers.

For home use, edrumin10 and edrumin4 into a MacBook Pro with SSD5 ran either in Logic or MainStage.

I HOPE there's a software release to the mimc, while it's awesome already.. would feel a bit let down if they stop supporting it.

I am still a massive 2box fan, and I still hanker to have a Drumit5 MK2 module. Just with owning the above, seems overkill.
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: edcito on April 04, 2022, 11:53:01 AM
Well the UK drum show has finished and there were no announcements from pearl regarding an update for the mimic pro so back to square one on that front... someone mentioned on the vdrums forum that this is now a side project from the slate developer and that he is working on an update but is not being paid for it...so he's doing it more as a hobby and out of good will rather than as a work obligation so....it could take a long time if ever before an update is released... kinda like 2box, which seems to be a hobby more than a real business...
Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: welshsteve on April 04, 2022, 01:16:41 PM
If that is the case (he's doing it as a hobby) I am sure mimic users would happily contribute to a go fund me for the guy. I know I would. I know who they're talking about and I have had many conversations with him, he seems like a really cool dude. But, you'd have to publicly ask for that and that brings bad press to it, so I can't see how it could happen even if say, 100 mimic users would happily tip him for his work.

Title: Re: Strange trigger dropouts / latency, especially when playing busy patterns
Post by: edcito on April 06, 2022, 12:15:49 PM
Well not exactly as hobby but on his own free time but still as a Slate Audio employee, it seems he has no budget for developing software updates for the mimic pro, which leads me to think why is Slate doing anyway since SSD5.5 hasn't been updated in years either and their midi maps got stuck on the td-30, no support for TD-50 digital pads, so it seems pearl just takes a cut for each mimic sold but isn't interested in releasing new sounds or anything while Slate has no interest/budget either and are mainly concerned with selling raven consoles and monthly paid software, no love for the 5 edrummers (they think) out there...