Ok, so I know I like the DrumIt5.
I will buy a kit soon, I have some gigs that really need low volume on stage.
I like the sounds for live use.
But, in my studio I use Superior 2, and have recorded with a TD-20 from Roland without any problems.
Have anyone tried the same thing with the 2box? Mapping, and foremost, does the hihat work good?
I want to use 2box and S2.0!
If anyone have any feedback, please enlight me!
Hi,
Yesterday i was playing around with superior 2. I got most things working, but still got some issues with cymbal choke and the hi-hat. I will try some more settings today. If i get it to work i will post my settings here.
Ok, I've learned a lot today.
I was at Bengt's home, trying to get the mapping working with superior.
I also saw the new rack in person.... GREAT!
We got most things working, but it was a lot of work, because Superior seems built for roland.
Funny thing is, that when recording superior with 2box as controller, everything sounded sort of machine-like, almost as if we had use quantize.
Same track played back to the 2box sounded great! Weird...
I got some stuff home with me from Bengt trying to work it out. Too bad I forgot the hihat-clutch... :P
QuoteI was at Bengt's home ...
Will a person ever be invited at mr. Roland's or Yamaha's home ?
Woulnd't think so. Bengt is a great guy, and deserves a lot of cred and respect for his work! :rock:
Quote from: hefu on August 10, 2010, 03:44:29 PM
Woulnd't think so. Bengt is a great guy, and deserves a lot of cred and respect for his work! :rock:
And who are you Hefu?
Well, I am a drummer who knows Bengt since a while back.
We have a few mutual friends, that brought us together.
At NAMM this year, my badge said exhibitor for 2Box, which wasn't really true, even though I spend quite some time in their booth!
Now I like to help them to try out their stuff.
Quote from: hefu on August 10, 2010, 10:24:41 PM
Well, I am a drummer who knows Bengt since a while back.
We have a few mutual friends, that brought us together.
At NAMM this year, my badge said exhibitor for 2Box, which wasn't really true, even though I spend quite some time in their booth!
Now I like to help them to try out their stuff.
that's cool man, iam very curious about that new rack.
Hi,
that is exactly my Problem too.
I have a 2 box Kit and a Roland.
I like the 2Box Kit a Lot, but I can't use for my Recordings with Superior
because of the wrong Mapping. I Found it Not easy to Change the Mapping
In Superior to Match with 2Box. Hihat and cymbals
are a Bit different in compare to Roland.
It would Be great to get a New Mapping
For 2 Box sets.
Another Big wish was the Soundlibraries from Toontrack and or Fxpansion for 2Box.
A Jointventure between These companies like with Pearl and Alesis would Be so cool!
Looking forward for the New Rack:-).
Regards Markuz :drum1:
Quote from: hefu on August 10, 2010, 03:10:47 PM
Ok, I've learned a lot today.
I was at Bengt's home, trying to get the mapping working with superior.
I also saw the new rack in person.... GREAT!
We got most things working, but it was a lot of work, because Superior seems built for roland.
Funny thing is, that when recording superior with 2box as controller, everything sounded sort of machine-like, almost as if we had use quantize.
Same track played back to the 2box sounded great! Weird...
I got some stuff home with me from Bengt trying to work it out. Too bad I forgot the hihat-clutch... :P
I found it to very easy to map, and, I will do mapping for all the Toontrack kits in the near future, and it will be downloadable from the 2box page, I guess.
:)This would Be cool
Quote from: hefu on October 02, 2010, 07:48:30 PM
I found it to very easy to map, and, I will do mapping for all the Toontrack kits in the near future, and it will be downloadable from the 2box page, I guess.
Quote from: MarkuZ on October 02, 2010, 07:22:05 PM
Another Big wish was the Soundlibraries from Toontrack and or Fxpansion for 2Box.
A Jointventure between These companies like with Pearl and Alesis would Be so cool!
If you already have Superior Drummer you can also import the sounds to the 2Box-Brain. Currently it is a bit laborious and you need Louis' editor to create the sound-files because 2Box still does not provide a usable sound editor. But it works! I'm using SD2.0 sounds for Snare and Kick at my 2Box brain.
Manfred
Yes I Know, thank You! But after a First Test with two Snares from SD, I Found that the original SD Sounds are a Bit better than the resampled ones from SD- bounced and then Importes Files. One reason is the anti machingun Effekt from SD. A randomizer in SD triggers Never the Same Sample twice After each other, in 2 Box this is not possible with this method.
It would Be very nice if 2Box has a jointventure with e.g. toontrack to Share the libraies with 2Box like Pearl eDrums .
Maybe in the future...
Quote from: Manfred on October 02, 2010, 11:03:02 PM
If you already have Superior Drummer you can also import the sounds to the 2Box-Brain. Currently it is a bit laborious and you need Louis' editor to create the sound-files because 2Box still does not provide a usable sound editor. But it works! I'm using SD2.0 sounds for Snare and Kick at my 2Box brain.
Manfred
Hi, I use Addictive Drums there is a 2Box map ready to use and it plays well..... also the kits from Native Instruments 60s,70s and 80s drums seem to have a 2Box map (it shows 2box in the video) this could prove the least expensive as they can be used in the free Kontact player they sound excellent too. :-*
Quote from: MarkuZ on October 03, 2010, 05:35:58 PM
Yes I Know, thank You! But after a First Test with two Snares from SD, I Found that the original SD Sounds are a Bit better than the resampled ones from SD- bounced and then Importes Files. One reason is the anti machingun Effekt from SD. A randomizer in SD triggers Never the Same Sample twice After each other, in 2 Box this is not possible with this method.
The 2Box does also a kind of randomizing. You can turn it on and off at the kit-enevlope page. At my kit it works fine if the number of samples is high enough, lets say 50 or more. At the beginning i even had the problem that it is too much randomizing because SD did it and also the 2Box-brain. After reducing the randomizing in SD a bit it works fine.
In my opinion the key is the number of samples for a sound. If you use a very large number of samples it is very difficult to trigger the same sample twice, with or without randomizing. But i agree that it is not easy to create good sounds because of all these options and parameters you can set or adjust.
Manfred
please everybody post their SD 2.0 mapping presets if you have.
Quote from: Manfred on October 05, 2010, 09:15:39 PM
The 2Box does also a kind of randomizing. You can turn it on and off at the kit-enevlope page. At my kit it works fine if the number of samples is high enough, lets say 50 or more. At the beginning i even had the problem that it is too much randomizing because SD did it and also the 2Box-brain. After reducing the randomizing in SD a bit it works fine.
In my opinion the key is the number of samples for a sound. If you use a very large number of samples it is very difficult to trigger the same sample twice, with or without randomizing. But i agree that it is not easy to create good sounds because of all these options and parameters you can set or adjust.
Ah, really?
I ve thought that this is only for internal Sounds.
Would Be cool.
I Must try this now to Be sure!
;)
Thanks for that hint!
Manfred
@Manfred
You mean the Layer Parameter right?
Yes it seems to work, but is this a real Round Robin?
For my opinion after Reading the Manual I ve thought that this only randomize between velocity layers and Not different Sounds for wach Layer!
@Protools
Where did you See 2Box in Kontaktplayer?
Quote from: MarkuZ on October 10, 2010, 09:09:57 AM
I've finally had the time to complete my setup of Superior and 2-box! Everything is working great (i even got mute to work on the crash, even though 2-box doesn't support aftertouch). I'm using "cubase essential 5", but all the settings has been done in SD. If anyone is interested, let me know.
Quote from: Dagger on October 11, 2010, 09:44:56 AM
I've finally had the time to complete my setup of Superior and 2-box! Everything is working great (i even got mute to work on the crash, even though 2-box doesn't support aftertouch). I'm using "cubase essential 5", but all the settings has been done in SD. If anyone is interested, let me know.
sure i am interested. can you upload the midi preset files?
for which kit did you do it?
Hello Dagger,
Yes please!!! I am also very interested. Can you post the drum map for Superior/2Box or send it by mail?
It must have been a lot of hard work. I know it is tricky. Well done!!!
Regards
Duckers
I will upload the settings file tonight when i get home. I can upload a combined preset based on the "avatar-session 1". You might have to change the mixer settings since i output to multichannel to the daw.
Perfect!
Thanks Dagger!
Hello Dagger, can i get the settings too?
best regards Markuz
Quote from: Dagger on October 11, 2010, 10:56:42 AM
I will upload the settings file tonight when i get home. I can upload a combined preset based on the "avatar-session 1". You might have to change the mixer settings since i output to multichannel to the daw.
Hello Dagger
You are the man !!!! I'd love to get the settings too .
Best Regards
Stephan
Since i couldn't find a way to upload/attache the file to the post, here is a link:
http://www.easy-share.com/1912597294/2BOX_SD_Settings (http://www.easy-share.com/1912597294/2BOX_SD_Settings)
To avoid confusion this file should be opened from within Superior drummer menu "load/save" combined preset. Just copy the file to the "preset folder":
eg. "C:\Users\xxxyyy\Documents\Toontrack\Superior2\PresetsEZX\SL-AVATAR\Combined"
In the 2-box module make sure that the "pedal" value is set to CC1 (unit -> node-menu. hit the hi-hat if you have a different pad selected)
*** Check later post for updates ***
http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,418.msg5243.html#msg5243 (http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,418.msg5243.html#msg5243)
My setup is the following:
Dell Latitude D630 (Windows 7 64-bit)
Cubase Essential 5 (32-bit)
Edirol UM-1SX Midi interface
Steinberg CI2+ USB audio interface (with asi4all drivers, works better than Steinberg's own drivers...)
..and yes, i know the download process is a pain in the a**. If anyone has a better place for the file let me know.
hmmm... i loaded the preset but i get no sound even when i click the set in SD.
the only think which is working is the bassdrum.
i am on superior 2.2.2
oh, i forgot. I'm using the multi-channel output in cubase. In the mixer settings in SD right-click on any "output" and chose stereo.
Quote from: Dagger on October 11, 2010, 07:15:11 PM
oh, i forgot. I'm using the multi-channel output in cubase. In the mixer settings in SD right-click on any "output" and chose stereo.
well, now the snare works and one tom and one cymbal. but theres the hihat on the tom and a rimshot on the cymbal. haha. ;)
Have you changed any midi-settings in the 2box module (i.e. note numbers for the pad)? I have not done any changes in the module apart from the cc1 setting for pedal-control.
I've also tested this setup in toontrack solo and it works very well.
Quote from: Dagger on October 11, 2010, 07:32:56 PM
Have you changed any midi-settings in the 2box module (i.e. note numbers for the pad)? I have not done any changes in the module apart from the cc1 setting for pedal-control.
yeah maybe i have in the past. is there any simple way to reset the brain?
Here is the midi-settings for the pads inte the 2-box module:
Hi-Hat=A2
Snare= F2 (rim F#2)
Kick= C2
Tom1= D3 (rim D#3)
Tom2= F3 (rim F#3)
Tom3= A3 (rim A#3)
Crash=E4
Ride=B4
Here is a modified settings file with the correct mixer settings (stereo output) and both cc1 and cc4 for the hi-hat. I have also mapped the cowbell to the cup of the cymbal.
http://www.easy-share.com/1912598098/2BOX Superior Drummer.s20 (http://www.easy-share.com/1912598098/2BOX%20Superior%20Drummer.s20)
This file is a SD "project file" open it via load/save in SD "load project"
Quote from: MarkuZ on October 10, 2010, 09:48:43 AM
@Manfred
You mean the Layer Parameter right?
Yes it seems to work, but is this a real Round Robin?
For my opinion after Reading the Manual I ve thought that this only randomize between velocity layers and Not different Sounds for wach Layer!
Ok, now I understand what you mean. I think there is only randomizing between velocity layers and not different sounds for the same velocity layer. But if you use a large number of samples i guess it sounds similar.
There is another idea you could try. With the dsoundtool you can assign a certain velocity layer to each sample in a range from 0 to 360. So you could assign samples very close to each other. Let me try to explain with an example:
velocity sound
49 weak1.wav
50 weak2.wav
51 weak3.wav
179 medium1.wav
180 medium2.wav
181 medium3.wav
349 heavyhit1.wav
350 heavyhit2.wav
351 heavyhit3.wav
In this very simple example the brain would choose one of the first 3 samples for weak hits, one of the last three samples for heavy hits and so on. With 90 examples for one sound you could create a sound with 30 "different" velocities and 3 sounds "per velocity". I hope you can understand what i mean. The description how to use the velocity option:
http://www.shortestpath.se/dsoundtool/manual/advanced.html
You can also try to assign the same velocity to several samples. But i guess this will not work. Just try or ask Louis :D
Manfred
it would be cool if you can add another cymbal and tom.
Quote from: Danny on October 11, 2010, 08:22:32 PM
it would be cool if you can add another cymbal and tom.
This is very simple, just add a drum/cymbal in SD then right-click on the drum to highlight it. Remove all midi-settings for that drum and click "learn" then hit the corresponding pad on you 2box-kit (or type the value).
Quote from: Dagger on October 11, 2010, 08:45:53 PM
This is very simple, just add a drum/cymbal in SD then right-click on the drum to highlight it. Remove all midi-settings for that drum and click "learn" then hit the corresponding pad on you 2box-kit (or type the value).
but i don´t have different zones then right? e.g. the bell?
Quote from: Danny on October 11, 2010, 08:51:46 PM
but i don´t have different zones then right? e.g. the bell?
You do have differnet zones. Just chose the articulation (down in the right hand corner) and repeat the same procedure. Crash-cymbals in SD don't have a sample for the bell, but all rides does. (that's why i have mapped the cowbell to the bell of crash1)
Great work dagger, thanx a lot!!
It works so far, some minor problems, I'll see. :rock: :rock:
Quote from: Dagger on October 11, 2010, 09:37:40 PM
You do have differnet zones. Just chose the articulation (down in the right hand corner) and repeat the same procedure. Crash-cymbals in SD don't have a sample for the bell, but all rides does. (that's why i have mapped the cowbell to the bell of crash1)
Thank you very much Manfred for your complex explanation.
I think, I understand what you mean. It's a good workaround I think, I'll try it.
Now I am quite happy with my new SD Midi Mapping :-).
Regards Markus :)
Quote from: Manfred on October 11, 2010, 08:01:42 PM
Ok, now I understand what you mean. I think there is only randomizing between velocity layers and not different sounds for the same velocity layer. But if you use a large number of samples i guess it sounds similar.
There is another idea you could try. With the dsoundtool you can assign a certain velocity layer to each sample in a range from 0 to 360. So you could assign samples very close to each other. Let me try to explain with an example:
velocity sound
49 weak1.wav
50 weak2.wav
51 weak3.wav
179 medium1.wav
180 medium2.wav
181 medium3.wav
349 heavyhit1.wav
350 heavyhit2.wav
351 heavyhit3.wav
In this very simple example the brain would choose one of the first 3 samples for weak hits, one of the last three samples for heavy hits and so on. With 90 examples for one sound you could create a sound with 30 "different" velocities and 3 sounds "per velocity". I hope you can understand what i mean. The description how to use the velocity option:
http://www.shortestpath.se/dsoundtool/manual/advanced.html
You can also try to assign the same velocity to several samples. But i guess this will not work. Just try or ask Louis :D
Manfred
:D Thanks a lot Dagger , it works fine
Quote from: hefu on October 02, 2010, 07:48:30 PM
I found it to very easy to map, and, I will do mapping for all the Toontrack kits in the near future, and it will be downloadable from the 2box page, I guess.
just wanted to know how far you are in the progress? i would love to hear the "evil drums" addon correctly mapped.
well, actually its not that hard, to only thing i dont get is the hi hat...
Now i've bought and installed the Evil Drums as well. I really like the sounds but I can't seem to map my 2box hi-hat correctly. I try to reset the midi for my hi-hat, click on Learn in SD and hit the hi-hat in different ways (full open, closed, pedal etc) but there's no dynamics when for example it is semi-open. I've also tried to change the midi-notes for the hi-hat sounds. It's getting better but it feels very "stiff".
Any ideas how to map the hi-hat correctly to get as real as possible?
Thx!
getting hihats to work properly is the bane of electronic drum triggering.
the 2Box brain sends three different MIDI messages to represent hihat data, these are the default settings:
MIDI Note #45 for bow hits (what BFD refers to as 'tip')
MIDI Note #46 for edge hits (BFD calls these 'shank')
MIDI Control Change (CC) #01 to indicate the pedal height (0–126; 0 = pedal up, 126 = pedal down)
CC #01 is the Modulation Wheel message, the other common message used is CC #04, which is Foot Control.
note that the 2Box only sends the pedal height CC when you hit the hihat, not continuously like most other drum modules. in this respect, it is like the Roland TD-20.
i don't have Superior Drummer, but i doubt you will be able to get the hihat working with just MIDI learn. look up variable hihats in the manual...
Here in this Thread are some postings with very good hints from dagger to fix this issue.
I had the same problem and with daggers Project-file for SD2.0 it is working fine now.
Try it, it works!
regards markuz
just a reminder: if anyone has been able to map the "evil drums" hihat corretly, please post the preset file.
thanks!
I would like to request a map/preset file for Metal Foundry add on if anyone out there has figured it out. I tried but don't have the time to perfect it.
Many thanks to Dagger for all the hard work :D
Paul.
any one already had success mapping the evil drums hihat for 2box?
cheers,
dan
Hi,
I've never used superior drummer,bfd or ezdrummer before.I want to upload new dsnd files to my 2box module.what is the easiest way to create dsnd files from superior drummer 2 samples? What's the format that they're stored in superior drummer (wave,midi etc)? Could someone experienced tell me the easiest way to get samples from superior drummer 2 and create dsnd files and then upload them to the module? Thanks for your help.
hi again,
here is alink to another thread where Louis explains how to do this for kontact , another VST , but the process would be the same with superior drummer...
Quote from: Louis on January 17, 2011, 11:14:19 PM
Hi Slappy,
You could try to use Reaper if you are using Windows, it has a 30 day free license and is otherwise cheap compared to some other tools. I have never used the Kontakt player but this is how it should work:
Try to locate the Kontakt player plugin from Reaper, and when you have done that you can create a new track "insert virtual instrument on new track".
On that track you then can insert a media file. Insert a midi file that you have created using DSoundTool (menu Tools/Generate Midi file).
Then play the midi file and bounce it to a wave file. You may have to repeat this once for every zone (e.g. bell, bow, edge for cymbals, different open levels for hihat)
Finally you can convert the obtained wave filesto a dsnd file using DSoundTool, using menu option Dsnd/Generate .dsnd file.
The procedure should be quite similar with other DAWs.
I hope that gets you started... Good luck!
Quote from: Dagger on October 11, 2010, 08:01:12 PM
Here is a modified settings file with the correct mixer settings (stereo output) and both cc1 and cc4 for the hi-hat. I have also mapped the cowbell to the cup of the cymbal.
http://www.easy-share.com/1912598098/2BOX Superior Drummer.s20 (http://www.easy-share.com/1912598098/2BOX%20Superior%20Drummer.s20)
This file is a SD "project file" open it via load/save in SD "load project"
The file is gone :-X
Could someone upload it again? :rock:
I have the file. Where is a good place on the web to post it for downloading?
Hi. Could you please email me that file to 2box@spambog.com, i would upload it on my website www.musicbase.ch.
Thanks, Mat
id be really grateful as well for this file, really looking forward to getting the two setup properly for the studio. my emails alexbutler79@hotmail.com if anyone could pop the settings file over :)
cheers
Hi,
Sorry but I kind of lost track of this thread.
Going to track down that file now.
There you go scutler, Grajnd, and musicbase.
I downloaded the file I have sent to your email from the 2Box website quite a while ago.
Hope it works out for you.
Cheers.
;D thankyou very much, really appreciate it bud!
sory to bring this old post up , but i cant seem to dial in the mapping either , does anyone have it ???
would be much apreciated
Hi,
Try this link: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18834284/Drumit5%20Avatar.s20 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18834284/Drumit5%20Avatar.s20)
/Dagger
Spot on!!!!!!!
Thx man , ive sucefully mapped every SDX and EZX expansion ( but the nashville ezx one for some reason that library has a different midi note on the hihat and with your map the only thing that works its the chick , will have a go again tomorrow to see whats up )
No choking on the cymbals tho
Will upload the midi preset for all expansions later tonight!!
Cymbal choke works in my setup. I will check my settings and post them here (i haven't messed with this in a while). Mapping the hi-hat is actually very easy, i will post the settings needed as well.
2Box drum midi note mapping in SD (default 2box midi settings)
HiHat Edge (hatsTrig) - A#1
Hihat (hatsTiptrig) - A1
Closed Pedal - B1
HatsCtrl - CC1
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18834284/HiHat.jpg)
snare - F1
Snare rim - F#1
Kick - C1
Tom 1 - D2
Tom 1 rim - D#2
Tom 2 - F2
Tom 2 rim - F#2
Tom 3 - A2
Tom 3 rim - A#2
Tom 4 - C3
Tom 4 rim - C#3
Cymbal 1 - F3, F#3 (edge), E3 (Bell)
Cymbal 1 Choke - G3
Notes for mapping Choke": Maps to "Mute Hit", set volume to zero, remeber to set "edit articulation only"
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18834284/Cymbal%20Choke.jpg)
Cymbal 2 - C4, C#4(edge), B3(Bell)
Cymbal 2 Choke - D4
Cymbal 3 - F4, F#4(edge), E4(Bell)
Cymbal 3 Choke - G4
Notes for mapping cymbals in superior: As there is no sound in superior for edge and bell on (most) cymbals, map all note to the "Crash" Articulation. Rides in Superior doesn't have the Choke/Mute option.
Hope this helps some!
/Dagger
great work , will try the mute mapping tomorrow and upload a ready to use midi mapping file for a 2 click set up and go for the lazy
I will be VERY grateful if someone will send me a preset for superior - having very hard time getting my hihat to work
Please send to : thorsundstroem@yahoo.dk