Hi,
I’ve not had much success using a rim for triggering both cross-stick and rim shots on elec kits. I’ve had more success using rims for either a cross-stick or rim shot, but not both. So I have a couple of questions:
- I wondered if anyone has tried the new Roland BT-1 trigger with a 2box setup? I’m keen to try one to use for effects (as an additional pad) and, in particular, for cross-stick triggering (leaving the rim for rim shots).
- Any suggestions on whether or not it is possible to successfully set up a snare rim trigger so it can be used for both cross-stick and rim shot (based on velocity?) on a 2box kit?
Thanks!
Andy
Quote from: AndyMo on November 29, 2013, 11:42:37 AM
Hi,
I’ve not had much success using a rim for triggering both cross-stick and rim shots on elec kits. I’ve had more success using rims for either a cross-stick or rim shot, but not both. So I have a couple of questions:
- I wondered if anyone has tried the new Roland BT-1 trigger with a 2box setup? I’m keen to try one to use for effects (as an additional pad) and, in particular, for cross-stick triggering (leaving the rim for rim shots).
- Any suggestions on whether or not it is possible to successfully set up a snare rim trigger so it can be used for both cross-stick and rim shot (based on velocity?) on a 2box kit?
Thanks!
Andy
On the BT-1 Greg is using that in his recent demo vids: Check this thread: http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1898.0
On snare rim dsnds for both Cross-stick and rim shot: That is possible. It requires building a new dsnd. I have built a few from VSTs .... what you do is use all cross-stick WAVs for velocities except the highest 2 or 3 velocity layers .... for those highest layers you use the rim shot WAVs. You can actually do this with a 2Box stock dsnd by using Dsoundtool to split the .dsnd file and rebuilding it ..... since I have a little time this morning ... I might build one for you to try out.
Still, if you are familiar with Roland modules this is exactly what is happening with their snare rims ... it is a Velocity triggered change, lower velocities Xstick, higher velocities Rim shot. So it isn't perfect. I prefer to assign a Xstick sound to a different pad myself for songs where I need it .... that way there are no surprises. J
Hi Jman,
Thanks for confirming. I've experienced the same issue on my Roland kit. It sort of works but does throw up some surprises - particularly when a rim shot rings out instead of a cross-stick.
I think I might invest in a BT-1 (or try one of my old Roland pads) and assign them separately as you suggest.
I watched Greg's video - and that is exactly the application I was thinking! Good to see if in action! :)
Thanks again for your time.
Andy
Quote from: AndyMo on November 29, 2013, 05:07:14 PM
Hi Jman,
Thanks for confirming. I've experienced the same issue on my Roland kit. It sort of works but does throw up some surprises - particularly when a rim shot rings out instead of a cross-stick.
I think I might invest in a BT-1 (or try one of my old Roland pads) and assign them separately as you suggest.
I watched Greg's video - and that is exactly the application I was thinking! Good to see if in action! :)
Thanks again for your time.
Andy
Actually there is one combination Cross stick Rim shot dsnd already in the 2Box module. It is in the Cross stick folder and called Cross shot 1. You can test that out on the rim of one of your snares. Like I say I have built several snares like that with Velocity switching sounds, and it can be done so they are pretty accurate just like the Roland style play .... but definitely a separate pad (or BT-1) with cross stick sound only assigned to it would be better.... J
Thanks Jman. I'll experiment with one of the built in setups and see how I get on.
Thanks!
Andy
Quote from: AndyMo on November 29, 2013, 11:42:37 AM
- Any suggestions on whether or not it is possible to successfully set up a snare rim trigger so it can be used for both cross-stick and rim shot (based on velocity?) on a 2box kit?
I just want to jump in:
I would go about this by simply using a BT-1 for a cross-stick!
I could imagine this approach leaves the snare-rim for all rim-shots (through all velocities, low to high) leaving the cross-stick on its own.
Vice-versa, if you are playing BT-1's cross-stick sound, the rim-shot won't get in the way with high-velocity rim-shots.
I reckon, you should not get any interference with each, you may just have to fumble around with the Drumit's crosstalk settings.
HTH
Impressed as I am with the BT-1, I think it's overkill for 2box as much of the cost must be a factor of the crosstalk cancelling functionality that only works with the new Roland modules. You could get the same results from a $20 Crappy Triggers beatbar (and tell him I sent you!). Just make sure it is well isolated from the drum on which you mount it.
Quote from: digitalDrummer on November 30, 2013, 07:11:49 AM
Impresses as I am with the BT-1, I think it's overkill for 2box as much of the cost must be a factor of the crosstalk cancelling functionality that only works with the new Roland modules.
Good point, Allan! - ...haven't really thought of this!
And Yes!, the Beatbar looks like the best consideration for this, closely resembling a BT-1.
Just for the sake of competeness, I like to point AndyMo to the two 'head-to-head' articles previously published in 'Digital Drummer' magazine:
May 2011-issue, page 13 (...2box on the cover! 8))
http://issuu.com/digitaldrummer/docs/digitaldrummer_may2011issuu (http://issuu.com/digitaldrummer/docs/digitaldrummer_may2011issuu)
May 2013-issue, page 42 (Aux-Triggers, part 2)
http://issuu.com/digitaldrummer/docs/digitaldrummer_may2103 (http://issuu.com/digitaldrummer/docs/digitaldrummer_may2103)
Also check the April 2010-issue, page 16, for info on the Crappy-Trigger!
http://issuu.com/digitaldrummer/docs/digtaldrummer_april2010 (http://issuu.com/digitaldrummer/docs/digtaldrummer_april2010)
HTH
Dänoh and Allan,
Thank you very much for the advice, recommendations and links. This is incredibly useful!
Cheers,
Andy
BTW, something I forgot to mention (and not sure if it makes much difference), I use Jobeky drums. I'm hoping to fix the trigger to the snare if possible - similar to how Greg has his setup. Slightly concerned about crosstalk, etc., having read the reviews.
Thanks,
Andy
I don't see why they would make much of a difference... They have just the regular 'center-cones', don't they?
How can we connect the Roland BT-1 to the 2box 12 inch snare pad?
Iam maby interested in 1 Roland BT-1.
Roel,
you might want to follow the words of advice by Allan (DigitalDrummer):
http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1913.msg17087#msg17087 (http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1913.msg17087#msg17087)
HTH
Quote from: Dänoh on December 25, 2013, 10:10:53 AM
Roel,
you might want to follow the words of advice by Allan (DigitalDrummer):
http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1913.msg17087#msg17087 (http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1913.msg17087#msg17087)
HTH
ok thanx man.
Might I suggest the Dauz Bone. I used to use one on an old Ddrum 4SE kit and it worked fantastic. I'm not sure it will fit on a 2Box pad, but it will fit anything with a traditional rim.
http://secure.pacificforce.net/dauz/index.php?id_product=5&controller=product
Quote from: Jman on November 29, 2013, 04:03:19 PM
On the BT-1 Greg is using that in his recent demo vids: Check this thread: http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1898.0
On snare rim dsnds for both Cross-stick and rim shot: That is possible. It requires building a new dsnd. I have built a few from VSTs .... what you do is use all cross-stick WAVs for velocities except the highest 2 or 3 velocity layers .... for those highest layers you use the rim shot WAVs. You can actually do this with a 2Box stock dsnd by using Dsoundtool to split the .dsnd file and rebuilding it ..... since I have a little time this morning ... I might build one for you to try out.
Still, if you are familiar with Roland modules this is exactly what is happening with their snare rims ... it is a Velocity triggered change, lower velocities Xstick, higher velocities Rim shot. So it isn't perfect. I prefer to assign a Xstick sound to a different pad myself for songs where I need it .... that way there are no surprises. J
Can you elaborate on how you created dsnds with rimshot on the highest velocities and xstick in the lower using the stock sounds? I want to do this with the drumit 3 stock 3 zone snares. I open one in dsoundtool, splitted it, click generate dsnd with many samples per wav but i cannot select more than one file at a time...
Quote from: edcito on August 12, 2018, 03:25:18 PM
Can you elaborate on how you created dsnds with rimshot on the highest velocities and xstick in the lower using the stock sounds?
I was looking at this. Unfortunately, it seems there isn't a simple way to achieve it. This is what I found:
1) Split the DSND file with the DsoundTool. It creates 3 folders for each zone.
2) In each folder a file called 'velocity.map' is created, in which the files of the folder are listed linked to the velocity according to dsoundtool (-100,360) [remember it's not the same as midi velocities that are between 0 and 127].
3) Create a new folder for copying the files that will be your 'rim' sound.
4) Based on the velocity.map file (it's a simple text file) select the sounds from folder 'Zone 7' (X-stick) with lower velocities, e.g. -100 < x < 200 and copy them to the folder previously created.
5) Based on the velocity.map file select the sounds from folder 'Zone 8' (Rimshot) with higher velocities, e.g. 200 < x < 360 and copy them to the folder previously created.
6) When Dsoundtool split the DSND file it doesn't add a 'Zone ID' to the wav filename, so be cautious when copying the files from steps 4) & 5) because they might end up having the same name, so you gotta modify the names accordingly. I suggest you to change the names of the all the X-stick files
7) copy one of the velocity map files to the folder with the selected files and edit it with the correct names.
8 ) Now you can create the DSND file. Select type 'snare', in 'Zone 3, head' select input as "Many .wav files, 1 sample for file" and select the velocity.map file located on the folder with the head samples. It'll load all the files listed on that velocity map.
9) repeat step 8 ) but with the velocity file on the folder created in step 3)
10) You're ready for creating the file
The only problem I see is that one must use the samples with lower velocities. Therefore, the volume of the X-stick is low. I tried using the high velocity (200 - 360) X-stick files, whose volume are higher, and assuming that simply by telling dsoundtool on the velocity map that those were low velocity (-100 - 200) it'd work, but it doesn't because you can't fool dsoundtool, and as its author wrote:
Quote from: Louis on March 08, 2012, 05:31:14 PM
DSoundTool assigns a velocity based on the maximum volume that can be found in the sample.
So if you use (as I did) the X-stick samples with the higher velocities, the program will locate the sample among the others of similar volume, so you end up having a files with mixed samples of X-stick with Rimshots.
But if you use the wav files of lower volume (and velocity) for the X-stick, it'll work as you ask.
On the other hand, Jman wrote a while ago:
Quote from: Jman on May 27, 2017, 05:09:01 PM
Just FYI, there is one Velocity switching Rimshot/Cross Stick type Rim sound in the 2Box module. It is in the Snare/Cross Stick folder. The name is Cross Shot 1. So if you assign that as the rim for one of your snare drums you can test that 2Box velocity switching sound. J
For those using SDSE there is a setting to choose for building the Velocity Switching snare X-stick/Rimshot when you are building DSND's. Just thought I would mention that since this thread goes back to times prior to all the latest features in SDSE. J
Quote from: p929 on August 12, 2018, 05:22:23 PM
I was looking at this. Unfortunately, it seems there isn't a simple way to achieve it. This is what I found:
Wow, very detailed explanation thanks. Well I think I just get a bt-1 and split another tom haha.
Quote from: Jman on August 12, 2018, 05:46:02 PM
For those using SDSE there is a setting to choose for building the Velocity Switching snare X-stick/Rimshot when you are building DSND's. Just thought I would mention that since this thread goes back to times prior to all the latest features in SDSE. J
Yeah, I used that and works perfectly with the snares from SD3 but I wanted to do the same with the drumit 3 stock 3 zone snares since I don't use a yamaha 3 zone pad.