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2Box Drumit 5 Forum => Drumit Next Gen => Topic started by: WeastpaK on November 28, 2013, 04:43:31 PM

Title: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: WeastpaK on November 28, 2013, 04:43:31 PM
The GEN16 Cymbals feels very good to play. And the acoustic sound is nice and quiet (quiet enough for most situations).
But the sound of the DCP (Digital Cymbal Processor) is terrible  :o


Drummers don't need more rubber pads!


Drummers need Cymbals!!!  :rock:


Something like GEN16 with trigger... :animal:
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Jman on November 28, 2013, 05:01:54 PM
The GEN16 Cymbals feels very good to play. And the acoustic sound is nice and quiet (quiet enough for most situations).
But the sound of the DCP (Digital Cymbal Processor) is terrible  :o


Drummers don't need more rubber pads!


Drummers need Cymbals!!!  :rock:


Something like GEN16 with trigger... :animal:
I don't know about something "like" Gen16's but I do triggers that work on Gen16's  :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2yATZvd33A
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Dänoh on November 28, 2013, 05:13:51 PM
Yes!
 I hear you!  ;)

I think 'Fulrmr' has attached piezo-triggers to his Gen16 cymbals! :rock:




Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: digitalDrummer on November 28, 2013, 10:31:00 PM
I did that a while ago, using Jman's kit, and it works well. But you should be aware that the new DS pickups make all the difference to the Gen16s.
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Greg the groove on November 29, 2013, 04:00:29 AM
I dont want to sound like a debbie downer, but even with the new Direct Source pickups, they still sound like crap. The only thing they did better was stop the feedback in live situations. A Zildjian rep on another forum, claims that there goal is to make this Direct Source pickup act as a trigger via midi to be able to hookup to any drum module to trigger sounds. Dont know if that will ever happen, but if it does, it could be a game changer.
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: digitalDrummer on November 29, 2013, 06:49:33 AM
A Zildjian rep on another forum, claims that there goal is to make this Direct Source pickup act as a trigger via midi to be able to hookup to any drum module to trigger sounds. Dont know if that will ever happen, but if it does, it could be a game changer.
Hey "Debbie", I think that's quite a liberal interpretation of Julia's position. I think Zildjian is throwing a lot into making these work as amplified acoustic cymbals.
Personally, I think the Gen16 AEs are perfectly gigable with the new DS sensors and the new beefed up presets - but they do need a capable amp up front.
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: WeastpaK on November 29, 2013, 10:57:34 AM
Dear 2Box Developer,


please read this topic and all the experiences of drummers with the GEN16.
And then...:


We want Cymbals (similar to GEN16) with triggers (3Zones (Hihat too) and chokeable)  for the half price of the GEN16... and  -very, very important- they have to shine in orange!!!!  ;) ;D




We are waiting....




ciao WeastpaK
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Dänoh on November 29, 2013, 01:46:26 PM
We want Cymbals (similar to GEN16) with triggers (3Zones (Hihat too) and chokeable)  for the half price of the GEN16... and  -very, very important- they have to shine in orange!!!!  ;) ;D


Simple:


(http://img.dooyoo.de/DE_DE/orig/2/0/1/3/8/2013847.jpg)

                                                 &

(http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mAeSQaojob1Xlnj3cr2Z-8w.jpg)

                                                =

                                                Problem solved!   8)



 :P ;)




Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: WeastpaK on November 29, 2013, 02:04:33 PM
I meant LED light in orange!!!!!    ::)
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Dänoh on November 29, 2013, 09:17:56 PM
I meant LED light in orange!!!!!    ::)


(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTcyWDEyOTY=/z/mVAAAMXQ01tRRBjU/$T2eC16hHJIQE9qUHuz4SBRRBjUg39!~~60_1.JPG)

 8)
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: fulrmr on December 04, 2013, 06:12:19 AM
Hey "Debbie", I think that's quite a liberal interpretation of Julia's position. I think Zildjian is throwing a lot into making these work as amplified acoustic cymbals.
Personally, I think the Gen16 AEs are perfectly gigable with the new DS sensors and the new beefed up presets - but they do need a capable amp up front.

Have to agree mostly with Allan here "Debbie"  ;)Last time I talked to Julia...she said they had no intention of developing these into "triggers" for midi in the near future...possibly never at all. I have converted built my own triggers and have some of Jerry's too...both work superbly if one wants to go that route....however......you just need to spend a considerable amount of time with the Access Tool to carve out the tones that fit "your" ears. The hats are great...rides are a bit frustrating for me as I have not been able to get a good bell and bow with the same setting...one or the other ..yes..just not both. Now the crashes have yet to wow me...but some have found settings that they are using in a live mix all the time. I trigger the 2Box with conversions for my crash tones.....works great.  :) No matter what...these make great additions to your cymbal array...even if you only use them as FX.
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Greg the groove on December 04, 2013, 06:41:07 AM
I remember Julia clearly saying last year that they would be working on eventually using Gen16 DS to be converted into midi signals to be used in drum modules as triggers. Maybe I misread or was just confused but that would be real cool I still think.

I like the reduced acoustic volume, the feel of metal cymbals, the look, the lights. I think its a perfect product to be able to make a legit cymbal pad trigger and be sold that way.
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Dänoh on December 04, 2013, 02:27:04 PM
Dear Mrs. Downer,  :P

if they made the DS pickups into triggers, that would work. At least, if you could live with a single-zone crash...

But how would you go about a multizone cymbal? This doesn't sound like it is achievable easily; unless you deaden the whole cymbal, as to not pick up ....   'interfere vibrations' (?) (zone crosstalk ?)


I mean, how could you separate bell, bow and edge zones on an acoustic ride-cymbal trigger...
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Greg the groove on December 04, 2013, 08:57:37 PM
Wow, I better not ever use the term Debbie Downer again around here! LOL!
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: hemiboy on December 05, 2013, 12:37:14 AM
Talk to Jman on this and v drum forum. He knows all anybody will know about cymbal triggers or any other pad triggers on this or any other forum and he will help you with any and all questions or even problems! Good Luck
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Dänoh on December 05, 2013, 01:11:37 AM
Wow, I better not ever use the term Debbie Downer again around here! LOL!

Who is Debbie Downer, anyway?

I've only heard of Martha Stewart!  (...and Json Parse, but that's another story...) 8)
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Greg the groove on December 05, 2013, 09:08:26 AM
I've been getting to know JSON way too much lately and it's getting to be very annoying. He has INTERNAL problems and issues!
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: fulrmr on December 05, 2013, 09:48:53 AM
Jerry's triggers work great...mine work great as well...and I don't use any dampening. The physical nature of the cymbal itself is dampening enough to allow good triggering with correct tweaking of the module. As for multi-zones...we all know that 2Box cymbals are 1 piezo and one mechanical choke creating 3 zones with a velocity sensitive bell tone...so....triggering is not just feasible...it's a reality. However...from public and private conversations with Julia....and knowing that she has said they "might" go that direction way down the line sometime.....maybe ::)......it has never been a goal for this product...only an afterthought...and a small one at that. The application for these has never really been directed at us "E" drummers per say...because some only consider full e kits as practice tools so therefore the live acoustic drumming(small venue/practice) applications are their main target with everything else that the creative drummer thinks they can be used for....as icing on the cake. Don't get me wrong....I fully embrace the the triggering concept of the Gen16s...and the acoustic attributes too. It's all I have on my kit besides a few Acrylic splashes and chinas...which I also built myself. I hope they do develop a midi aspect to these that can run simultaneously with the acoustic properties of these using the DS pickups as the transmitter....but I wouldn't count on it any time soon. Maybe within the next decade....maybe. ;) Right now as it stands...they sell these cymbals without any pickups just so you can choose which you would like...get some...build/buy some triggers for them...and have fun....no need to wait  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Dänoh on December 05, 2013, 01:53:22 PM
I've been getting to know JSON way too much lately and it's getting to be very annoying. He has INTERNAL problems and issues!


Greg, just wait until you meet Mrs. 'Susanne Blech'....



...she's the forgotten step-sister to the second cousin of Json Parse - and even worse than Json himself! 






(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/danoh_forum/vdrums%202box/danoh_wronka_bassdrum_susanne_blech_zpsef4c3bec.jpg)

(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/danoh_forum/vdrums%202box/danoh_mrs_susanne_blech_in_action_zps5d71be75.jpg)



Wicked, wicked woman!   (http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/danoh_forum/emoticon/emoticon_laughing_zpsb2aff78a.gif)
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: boekhour on May 11, 2014, 06:26:17 PM
Is this what we need?? Real cymbals with triggers...

http://www.revolution.atlassoundlab.com/order2.html
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: WeastpaK on October 28, 2014, 01:18:32 PM
...looks very interesting...


http://www.jobekydrums.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=385 (http://www.jobekydrums.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=385)

...other sizes (HH, Ride, etc.) should follow next year.
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: norseman on April 29, 2015, 05:04:34 PM

Simple:


(http://img.dooyoo.de/DE_DE/orig/2/0/1/3/8/2013847.jpg)

                                                 &

(http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mAeSQaojob1Xlnj3cr2Z-8w.jpg)

                                                =

                                                Problem solved!   8)



 :P ;)

Sorry but Alesis hardware is just so bad I wouldn't recommend it.

Gen16 are half way there. The DCP has a USB output which could be used for MIDI and the direct source pickups are basically triggers.
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Murgen on April 30, 2015, 07:40:48 AM
I doubt if the DCP USB can be used for MIDI. It is a feature not implemented yet. The engineer who developed GEN16 for Zildjian has an unofficial forum online and the last word is that it is not in. http://gen16.freeforums.org/index.php

The working way to go right now if to buy the Zildjian GEN16 cymbals without pickups and purchase JMan's triggers.

I play GEN16 since summer 2012 (original 480AE box) and replaced the cymbals by buffed bronze and the acoustic pickups with the DSP's. In 2013-2014 several DCP sound-patterns were released that sound quite decent. I'm happy. If Zildjian really decides to move from DCP to triggers I will integrate the cymbals with my 2Box.
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Anvil123 on May 02, 2015, 03:27:52 AM
Drumit 6; USB for vsts ... speed.
More outputs for recording ...
gen 16 style cymbals ... oh yeah... if MIDI compatible... OMG
MORE trigger outputs ... blow td 30 out of the water ... Roland is simply charging too much for very little new electronic drum contribution lately :)
Title: Re: Cymbals like Zildjian's GEN16 but with trigger!!!
Post by: Darthsleader on August 10, 2016, 08:24:25 PM
Old old topic, I know...

But Zildjian released an update for the Gen16s last month, and some of the sounds are really really good. Also, the new version of their DCP preset making software is very user-friendly and a huge improvement.

Just for anyone who (like me!) would rather play in metal cymbals than rubber!

AND- the LEDs can be programmed to glow orange!

Jer