VST Drums and 2Box = VST Drums vs E Drums

[drumsonly2002]

As a DDrum 4 user, I am attracted to 2Box since the triggering, sounds and unit have the best build and technology bar none. Was told a Mac Computer or Muse Receptor with software sound better than any E Drums be it DDrums, 2Box, TD-20 etc. I never used VST samples and have not compared the two. I am very impressed with my humble retro DDrum module, but as with anything, if 2Box better, or VST, may move in that direction. For example, a mac computer can handle as many samples pending hard drive size. With all this being said, I am into 1-2 good snare samples, 1-2 Tom samples, etc. Not a power user, as I believe less is more. Thus could potentially blow a lot of funds just to get a snare a "bit" better than what I have now. I use my e kit live, so try to keep my it simple sample / kit wise. I am not into a 100 different kits, just the best sound for live gigs. Triggering, dynamics and sound is my focus. Reverbs and gimmics such as my Yamaha DTX Extreme 4.0 kit doesn't turn me on vs the  DDrum 4's great triggering and dynamics abilities. Is the VST technology worth looking into? I cannot imagine VST's sounding better than 2Box as it's samples are higher fidelity quality vs DDrum (that sounds very nice also). Thanks for any responses.

[Baby Samus]

VSTi is pretty much the best quality drums you can get really.  With the likes of Superior Drummer 2 and BFD 2.1 etc, a PC or MAC with a decent sound card, it offers the fullest solution in every respect.  VSTi offers full control over microphone positioning and effects, far more layers and positional sensing, and of course you can use your existing e-kit as a MIDI interface.  So if you already have a PC, Superior Drummer 2.0 only cost around 250 euro and offers some of the best sounds possible.

The drawback is you need to take your PC/Laptop to gigs, so that needs to be a consideration.

Seeing as you already have a DDrum 4, if you want the best sound possible, I would recommend VSTi rather than buying the 2Box - better sound and more features for less money.  That is of course, only if you have or are willing to buy a PC/Laptop capable of running the software with a decent sound card, and even then only if you are willing to take that PC or laptop to gigs.

The 2Box module costs over 3 times more than Superior Drummer, so it all depends on how much you are looking to spend and whether you have a PC already.  But if you really just want another module, the 2Box is basically like the DDrum 4SE on steroids, so I'm sure you'd be right at home.  Lots to think about...

Hope that helps.

[fishmonkey]

if you only need a small set of favourite sounds, then in my opinion it's not worth the extra hassle and risk of running another computer + audio interface just to host a drum sampler, especially if you gig regularly.

[digitalDrummer]

While the power and quality of VSTs is awesome, unfortunately computing technology is not (if you're using a Windows-based laptop for example). I took my Zendrum to band practice on the weekend instead of lugging a full kit. I took my laptop loaded with various VSTs and a USB/MIDI interface - and after booting up, got my first-ever Windows blue screen of death. Luckily, I had a spare module with me, so I simply plugged and played. During a break, I rebooted and the laptop was more co-operative, but what would have happened had that been a gig and if I didn't carry a spare module? Of course, the sounds that came out of the VSTs left the module for dead, but as they say, the show must go on ...

[Baby Samus]

Indeed, but the question was:

'Is the VST technology worth looking into? I cannot imagine VST's sounding better than 2Box as it's samples are higher fidelity quality vs DDrum'

The answer to that question is still yes, because VSTi ultimately offers the best sound quality and control, whilst the samples are more numerous and higher resolution than 2Box.

The answer to whether or not to buy that software or a 2Box module depends very much on the user's variables (budget, stage requirements, available PC etc) but the above statement still remains true.  If you have a capable PC/Laptop setup and its road worthy (I build PC's, and contrary to popular belief they can be made to run as reliably as a module with the right component choice and software configuration) VSTi is simply better.

Not knocking the 2Box, after all I own one!  As a stand alone solution its the best thing out there in its price range, very simple to use, great to play and of course gig reliable.

[drumsonly2002]

Great replies! Thanks. second question, what is a good program for live gigging that has good layering and dynamics? So far Superior drummer seems to be a favorite from my search. Steven Slate drums was recommended. A lot of choices. What do you use, and how do you find it live? You guys are great!

[logihack]

if you will go with superior, some adpak is recommended(evil drums, music city...) addictive drums is also a very good choice for live use - maybe the best for live...but again, the new adpaks are much better then old samples(funk, metal)...steven slate or anything in kontakt, is not a good choise for e drummer at all - read some rewievs about that...maybe even some bfd stuff, but for this one you will need external hdd(recommended by fxpansion)

[puttenvr]

The answer to that question is still yes, because VSTi ultimately offers the best sound quality and control, whilst the samples are more numerous and higher resolution than 2Box.

In theory: yes
But in practice the bass guitar player is next to me, producing a huge amount of noise as a result of which I have to raise the treshold and loose the first 20 steps of dynamics in my sounds.
Plus: do we really hear the difference between a VSTi and 2Box sound live?
Plus: the computer,
Plus: the need of a decent soundcard (most computers run a standard sound chip on board)
Plus: the latency,
Plus: all the Windows problems

Getting a 2Box module is a bit easier

[drumsonly2002]

 The following are serious thoughts to consider:

1. Plus: do we really hear the difference between a VSTi and 2Box sound live?
2. Plus: the computer,
3. Plus: the need of a decent soundcard (most computers run a standard sound chip on board)
4. Plus: the latency,
5. Plus: all the Windows problems

1. That is the most important aspect I am considering. One thought was to do a A /  B test live. A. The module, B. VSTi against each other. I have a ton of pads / modules and laptop to try this. be an interesting experiment. If the VSTi makes the clouds part and the sun shine be worth considering. If not the 2 Box would be a good upgrade from DDrum 4.
2. The computer. Mac computers run very stable, and Muse receptor also. But that being said less is more, modules are  even more stable.
3. PreSonus FireBox apparently works
4. PreSonus FireBox less than 3ms latency.
5. True, Windows = Problems, Mac = Stable, 2 Box = Super Stable

I am interested in VSTi since I never tried it.  Addictive Drums seem the most user friendly, and sounds great (on Ytube etc.). I find this area of drumming compelling. I am not an acoustic player anymore and an E drum hardcore type. when I do play acoustics it is a real treat. Thanks for all the great comments.

[Slap the drummer]

With all this being said, I am into 1-2 good snare samples, 1-2 Tom samples, etc. Not a power user, as I believe less is more. Thus could potentially blow a lot of funds just to get a snare a "bit" better than what I have now. I use my e kit live, so try to keep my it simple sample / kit wise. I am not into a 100 different kits, just the best sound for live gigs.

You have another option.... go with the 2box and then use superior drummer or whatever to make your own .dsnd files to play on it, without
the hassle of a proper vst set up. 

You will have the hassle of making those .dsnd files though.  But the sounds from something like SD2.0 easily outclass the 2box samples - they
have more bite, more punch, more shine, you name it - more realistic in a word.

And something to bear in mind, esp if you only want a handful of sounds, is that you really do have the option with something like SD to "tune
up" the samples not just to get what you like but to get something that cuts thru the mix, with things like EQ etc.  (You can't mix live though
of course if you're making your own files.... )

Yes the 2box offers a simple EQ function but imo the 2box sounds are already heavily processed and won't really always take too much more
than a gentle massage.  But the SD samples (eg) are truly full spectrum neutral sounds just waiting to be tweaked.

Possibly a laptop with a top class interface wd sound better than the 2box module, I don't know.... but the module does do a good job
of playing back samples nevertheless.  For example, if I know what I'm listening for I can easily hear (after making 2box file)
the effect of small adjustments when mixing the SD sounds - like a 5db hike in one of the ambient mikes, to help the toms ring out
a bit more.

Just a few different thoughts......

[Jman]

+1 to Slap the drummer's comments about loading the Drumit Five with high quality sampled sounds. It is amazing me how great this module can sound! I have shied away from PC drumming with VSTIs just waiting for a stand alone drum module that could offer something comparable in sounds. I now have that (not saying it equals a PC with VSTI, but it is very, very good). There is a price tag .... beyond the module the actual VST programs and in my case a larger capacity SDHC card. But I have absolutely no regrets, well worth it!

[Baby Samus]

In theory: yes
But in practice the bass guitar player is next to me, producing a huge amount of noise as a result of which I have to raise the treshold and loose the first 20 steps of dynamics in my sounds.  

I did not have this issue live as I had a decent backline stack and headphones, but that is the case with any amplified instrument if you don't have proper monitoring - Putt I thought you had Westones?  Do these not cancel out the external noise?

Plus: do we really hear the difference between a VSTi and 2Box sound live? - Yes, I do and have tested both VSTi and 2Box live.  VSTi sounds better and has more options.
Plus: the computer - if he already has one, there is no cost involved.
Plus: the need of a decent soundcard (most computers run a standard sound chip on board) - Yes this is true it is best to have a dedicated sound board for music rather than using the on board chip.  Will cost around £100 - £300 I think.
Plus: the latency - latency using these components is better than the 2Box latency, as its only dependant on your hardware and sound card.  Comparing the latency tests on the forum with Superior tests on my PC, Superior can be almost twice as fast, again this is depending on your setup.
Plus: all the Windows problems - as I said previously, a properly built PC even running windows with good configuration can be as stable as a module.

Just saying, Superior outputs at 24-bit, and the samples are 24-bit, and it has more sample layers and more types and layers of randomisation.  Its better sound quality, no question.

[puttenvr]

I did not have this issue live as I had a decent backline stack and headphones, but that is the case with any amplified instrument if you don't have proper monitoring - Putt I thought you had Westones?  Do these not cancel out the external noise?

I was referring to false triggering. Since the bass player is next to me, there are always sound waves, coming from his instrument, which trigger my drums unwanted. I can reduce that by raising my treshold. No problme. BUT: with this the advantage of 50 dynamic layers is reduced.

Who is playing with VST-i sounds and a computer live?
Hands please ...

[logihack]

I was referring to false triggering. Since the bass player is next to me, there are always sound waves, coming from his instrument, which trigger my drums unwanted. I can reduce that by raising my treshold. No problme. BUT: with this the advantage of 50 dynamic layers is reduced.

Who is playing with VST-i sounds and a computer live?
Hands please ...

i was playing live with vst sounds on my macbook...i never had any problem with my gear

[Baby Samus]

Odd, I never had the bass player trigger my kit live even in one gig where his stack was less than a foot away - didn't change trigger settings either.  I have used VSTi live and had no problems personally.  Used a PC and laptop and both worked fine.