Wooohooo! Glad to see a notification on the 2Box website. Jan 19-22, Booth 2454 HALL D ..... 2Box will be there at Winter Namm .... So, I'll be sure to stop by and say hello for the gang here on the forum! J
Jman,
Can you ask them about the elusive rubber surface and positional sensing that was promised many moons ago!
thanks
Quote from: 3drum on January 16, 2012, 04:51:33 PM
Jman,
Can you ask them about the elusive rubber surface and positional sensing that was promised many moons ago!
thanks
I'll make a list of questions for the various stops I make ... I'll try... J
So ... since Clavia is into virtual analoque drum devices what's 2Box bringing to the BOOT this thursday?
Quote from: puttenvr on January 17, 2012, 08:59:56 PM
So ... since Clavia is into virtual analoque drum devices what's 2Box bringing to the BOOT this thursday?
More free upgrades to our present modules I hope ;) ;D
I don't think they'll shock us with a new module model, but we shall see.... maybe they'll come out with some new cymbal size, rubber heads for the drums ... or maybe just getting back in the U S picture with their Canada distributor....
Quote from: Jman on January 17, 2012, 09:22:24 PM
More free upgrades to our present modules I hope ;) ;D
I don't think they'll shock us with a new module model, but we shall see.... maybe they'll come out with some new cymbal size, rubber heads for the drums ... or maybe just getting back in the U S picture with their Canada distributor....
I still waiting that 2box will make a recording of the Yamaha PHX Kit. :rock:
Dropped my camera right after this shot, so none of my pics turned out .... here's Bengt though... playing a kit with new 2Box acoustic triggers. They did have the rubber heads there too. The rubber actually goes under the mesh, the mesh holds it in place.... gives it a more solid feel I suppose, but to me it feels like you could get your elbows worked over .... like when you play hard rubber pads for a while ... I didn't play em long though, so I could be wrong...
(http://weblogimages.com/dajmando/Bengt%20takes%20a%20good%20pic.jpg)
the new triggers looks nice ... is it Jack or XLR ?
1/4" .... I'll get more specifics tomorrow... we should crack one of those 2Box modules open and put one of my custom 32GB cards in it, just to demo what you can do with it .... that'd do some Demo justice for the 2Box module/kit....
That's a good idea !
Tell us how they appreciate it ! And move this Jman's enhanced module © near Roland's booth and play it loud :patbat2box:
Where can I download the new triggers ? ???
Any news on positional sensing Jman?
Jman do you have some good Crash& Hihat, DSND samples?
we all want those great sounding SDND Samples!
Roel, Jman will surely answer you a big no no as this is possibly an infrigement to share DSND created from VSTs.
Toontrack and BFD tolerate to use their sounds as samples for 2box module. They do not want them to be shared for obvious reasons.
Quote from: 3drum on January 20, 2012, 06:38:41 PM
Any news on positional sensing ?
No center trigger = no positionnal sensing ....
...... they should think about the many users of non 2BOX pads .... or to release a new high end snare pad with centered sensor .... but i dont know , there is maybe some kind of patent that prevent them to do this ....
The 2BOX sensor type is with the piezo touching the meshhead directly , so placed in the center , it will break within a minute , as soon as you hit the center ... And Roland protected the use of any " mesh/foam/piezo " sensor device in the US ....
The old ddrum pads had a piezo glued to an alluminium plate, with foam and a real drumhead on top.
As far as I remember, they had positional sensing, so it's not a Roland exclusive feature.
And - if I remember correctly - Bengt once said that positional sensing would be possible with the 2Box rubber heads. Perhaps the software needs to be adapted.
Deve?
OK, so No .... no current plans for Pos. Sensing .. it could be possible with center mounted piezo, but not in the works afaik ... Got some good time in talking to Blake at the 2Box booth ... and Bengt...
I can tell you one thing guys .... with what you can do with custom dsnds on the 2Box module ... it is pretty hard to touch the sound quality.... I was all over the electronic edrums at NAMM ... and after building my own custom dsnds and referring back each night .... there is nothing out there (for me) even with more bells and whistles that will drag me in another direction....
Bengt knows my face pretty well by now ;D ;)
There were whispers of 12GB capacity stock in the future ... not completely clear on that as to whether we are talking about a more compressed format...... dunno.
I was here just when Dolbear was finishing this little clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgnAGuXj7AE
Quote from: Jman on January 21, 2012, 08:44:10 PM
OK, so No .... no current plans for Pos. Sensing .. it could be possible with center mounted piezo, but not in the works afaik ... Got some good time in talking to Blake at the 2Box booth ... and Bengt...
I can tell you one thing guys .... with what you can do with custom dsnds on the 2Box module ... it is pretty hard to touch the sound quality.... I was all over the electronic edrums at NAMM ... and after building my own custom dsnds and referring back each night .... there is nothing out there (for me) even with more bells and whistles that will drag me in another direction....
Bengt knows my face pretty well by now ;D ;)
There were whispers of 12GB capacity stock in the future ... not completely clear on that as to whether we are talking about a more compressed format...... dunno.
We allready have 32GB SDHC cards.
I don't
Quote from: Jman on January 21, 2012, 08:44:10 PM
OK, so No .... no current plans for Pos. Sensing ...
Thank you for the report, Jerry.
Bad news....It's the only thing missing in the kit.
Currently there are not so many nuances on a pad while the system of layers could allow an expressivity never reached. If it is necessary to buy a roland pad to be able to make that it's not a problem, I prefer that instead of buying a td20 module and connect it to the 2box module.
Have you seen the td30 at namm?
Quote from: nonoduweb on January 22, 2012, 11:09:22 AM
Thank you for the report, Jerry.
Bad news....It's the only thing missing in the kit.
Currently there are not so many nuances on a pad while the system of layers could allow an expressivity never reached. If it is necessary to buy a roland pad to be able to make that it's not a problem, I prefer that instead of buying a td20 module and connect it to the 2box module.
Have you seen the td30 at namm?
On my own kit I do have center mount piezo for the head. So with a new OS with Pos Sensing I'd be set.
I did see and play the new Roland kit. Honestly it plays incredible as far as triggering/response, playability, changing sounds, ambience, overhead mics, reverb ... on the fly... You can take one kit and completely change it in almost every aspect ... Room size, dryer sound, wet sound, shell sizes .... on the fly, almost instantly ...... and it sounds better than the TD-20SX.
I'll answer the question before it is even asked........ Despite the Bells and Whistles .... I will not be abandoning ship ..... I love my current setup! And I know the incredible high quality sampled sounds it can use and reproduce .... 8)
Quote from: roel on January 22, 2012, 07:57:48 AM
We allready have 32GB SDHC cards.
Yes, but we are bad, bad, rebellious children! ;D ;)
Quote from: Jman on January 22, 2012, 04:24:33 PM
Room size, dryer sound, wet sound, .... on the fly, almost instantly ......
I'll answer the question before it is even asked........ Despite the Bells and Whistles .... I will not be abandoning ship ..... I love my current setup! And I know the incredible high quality sampled sounds it can use and reproduce .... 8)
if you need those , it s cheaper for you to pick one second hand dual effect processor , even a good one like TC-ELECTRONIC M2OOO , and set a room amb + a long reverb using your mixers sends ....
you can find some for 300 bucks ... lot less than a TD30 module
Quote from: Jman on January 22, 2012, 04:24:33 PM
On my own kit I do have center mount piezo for the head. So with a new OS with Pos Sensing I'd be set.
I did see and play the new Roland kit. Honestly it plays incredible as far as triggering/response, playability, changing sounds, ambience, overhead mics, reverb ... on the fly... You can take one kit and completely change it in almost every aspect ... Room size, dryer sound, wet sound, shell sizes .... on the fly, almost instantly ...... and it sounds better than the TD-20SX.
I'll answer the question before it is even asked........ Despite the Bells and Whistles .... I will not be abandoning ship ..... I love my current setup! And I know the incredible high quality sampled sounds it can use and reproduce .... 8)
Where can we buy these incredible high quality (SDND) sample sounds?
Roel, tell me ... are you really happy with the 2Box?
First it was the need for better hardware
then you almost daily asked for spareparts
then a 32 gb card
then the Yamaha PHX kit
now incredible high quality (SDND) sample sounds ...
My band never requested me to use anything of that all
Only a better voice ;-)
Quote from: roel on January 22, 2012, 07:06:40 PM
Where can we buy these incredible high quality (SDND) sample sounds?
Nowhere.... exept if someone who has SD2 sell them on the black market ....
it takes time , but if you want some , i m affraid you ll have to ger Superior drummer , or some drum library and get them converted youself with the editor ....
Slap did a long topic on those library ....
Hello ...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T3AyATBCepg/Txr751erCDI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/FwRlJOET0ys/s912/IMG_7065.jpg)
Who else has curly hair ? 8)
looks like Roel's kit ... ;)
Quote from: puttenvr on January 22, 2012, 07:15:58 PM
Roel, tell me ... are you really happy with the 2Box?
First it was the need for better hardware
then you almost daily asked for spareparts
then a 32 gb card
then the Yamaha PHX kit
now incredible high quality (SDND) sample sounds ...
My band never requested me to use anything of that all
Only a better voice ;-)
I only have things upgraded that's all, Iam a very happy 2box user Rob.
is that picture from namm 2012? looks indeed like my own kit.
It IS your kit.
Glad you're happy with the 2Box
groetjes
Rob
Quote from: edtc on January 22, 2012, 08:14:06 PM
is it you ROB ? :)
He Wish he had so much hair, but I must look to myself. :)
Quote from: edtc on January 22, 2012, 07:16:06 PM
Nowhere.... exept if someone who has SD2 sell them on the black market ....
it takes time , but if you want some , i m affraid you ll have to ger Superior drummer , or some drum library and get them converted youself with the editor ....
SD2 has no more than 12 to 17 unique layers, and the softest hits are not very soft. I'm not impressed.
Quote from: Krillo on January 23, 2012, 10:21:59 AM
SD2 has no more than 12 to 17 unique layers, and the softest hits are not very soft. I'm not impressed.
Jerry .... say something .... :)
Quote from: edtc on January 23, 2012, 03:12:53 PM
Jerry .... say something .... :)
Who me? ;)
Plenty of layers to get good sounds in the module from SD2.0 .... and when you build your dsnds you have the choice in Dsoundtool to use up to 99 hits per zone ... like 99 hits on a snare head for example. If you record 99 hits in SD2.0 .... there is plenty of alternating, randomizing of hits to avoid an unnatural sounding/responding result ... and the module has a variable setting beyond that .... I don't even use the 2Box module's variable setting, I just choose fixed since I have already recorded a variable sound in SD2. And as far as soft hits .... the other thing happening is Louis' Dsoundtool works really good now ... it spreads the velocity of the hits over a wide range....
No advantage to me whether people go that route or not .... definitely nothing to gain on my end ... but, I can tell you that I didn't hear anything that tops these sounds from a stand alone module at NAMM 2012. Each time I came home ... no matter how tired I was I had to sit at my kit just to smile and gloat a bit! ;D ;) 8)
Not sure if you have checked out the video demos I've done ... and of course sounds are very subjective.... but I am pleased with results from SD2:
http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,912.msg8818.html#msg8818
Quote from: Jman on January 23, 2012, 03:35:25 PM
Who me? ;)
Yes you.... you explain it much better than i would ...:)
J, you always forget to mention your Youtube video as well :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCAAHByhGnI&context=C32c52d5ADOEgsToPDskIs1dA9wYClO7RSfXTiA9BZ
Lesser quality but instant viewing.
.... yes , but some of you may become seasick while seeing it .... so carefully sit down before watching it !!!!....;)
Upside down, Jman you turn me, inside out ...
True, the last part is kinda psychedelic.
I was just trying to spare you all my boring jabber ..... more talk than drum sounds on that one ;) ;D
I'll have to do another vid one of these days, I've built a few more kits, more Vistalite kits (I just love the big Vistalite sounds), the main Music City kit, plus a couple brush kits and a rods kit...
Quote from: SHwoKing on January 23, 2012, 05:42:01 PM
True, the last part is kinda psychedelic.
Jman .... could you please provide me the kind of drugs you take when you make videos ? i d love some!!!
Quote from: edtc on January 23, 2012, 05:46:26 PM
Jman .... could you please provide me the kind of drugs you take when you make videos ? i d love some!!!
No that's just my mind ..... Not necessary anymore for me .... my mind's still in a paper acid loop from the late 70's ;D :o
Quote from: Jman on January 23, 2012, 03:35:25 PM
Who me? ;)
Plenty of layers to get good sounds in the module from SD2.0 .... and when you build your dsnds you have the choice in Dsoundtool to use up to 99 hits per zone ... like 99 hits on a snare head for example. If you record 99 hits in SD2.0 .... there is plenty of alternating, randomizing of hits to avoid an unnatural sounding/responding result ... and the module has a variable setting beyond that .... I don't even use the 2Box module's variable setting, I just choose fixed since I have already recorded a variable sound in SD2. And as far as soft hits .... the other thing happening is Louis' Dsoundtool works really good now ... it spreads the velocity of the hits over a wide range....
No advantage to me whether people go that route or not .... definitely nothing to gain on my end ... but, I can tell you that I didn't hear anything that tops these sounds from a stand alone module at NAMM 2012. Each time I came home ... no matter how tired I was I had to sit at my kit just to smile and gloat a bit! ;D ;) 8)
Not sure if you have checked out the video demos I've done ... and of course sounds are very subjective.... but I am pleased with results from SD2:
http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,912.msg8818.html#msg8818
I guess this was a response to me? :)
My point was exactly that - the 2box module supports 99 layers and SD2 has much less. By that I do not mean that your kit doesn''t sound great, it does! My ddrums sound great too with only up to 16 layers. My findings in regard to SD2 is merely that it didn't have as many unique hits / samples as the hype kind of suggested. Actually only 12 on some sounds and 17 on others.
I'm also sure that your dsnds kick all Namm's e-kits butt, including the stock 2box. I have downloaded the sounds from the 2box site, so do I have an idea of how those sound, also I have checked out tons of Youtube vids of 2box kits which have the stock sounds, and they do sound good.
Quote from: Krillo on January 23, 2012, 10:28:26 PM
I guess this was a response to me? :)
My point was exactly that - the 2box module supports 99 layers and SD2 has much less. By that I do not mean that your kit doesn''t sound great, it does! My ddrums sound great too with only up to 16 layers. My findings in regard to SD2 is merely that it didn't have as many unique hits / samples as the hype kind of suggested. Actually only 12 on some sounds and 17 on others.
I'm also sure that your dsnds kick all Namm's e-kits butt, including the stock 2box. I have downloaded the sounds from the 2box site, so do I have an idea of how those sound, also I have checked out tons of Youtube vids of 2box kits which have the stock sounds, and they do sound good.
How did you determine how many unique hits ... not really arguing this, but not sure? There is a voice and layer limit setting, which I set to unlimited on the layers, and just set it to a high number on the voices ... I have never actually counted the voices of individual drums.... etc...
And of course the no. of Velocities is dependent on your choice of MIDI file, no of hits..
but interested in how you determined the number of actual unique hits.....
honestly i don't understand why everyone is so excited about PS. Are you really using the snare side sound so often? The only song in wich i have ever used it was gavin harrison's 19 days. I am much more concerned about MIDI expandibility, i have a trigger IO and a bunch of pads i can't use simply because it's impossible to assign a MIDI note to a sound that is not bound to a drum channel, therefore midi in is almost useless for me. Please improve this thing i don't want to buy another module!
Quote from: the3D on January 24, 2012, 09:04:37 AM
...i don't understand why everyone is so excited about PS...
According to Jerry, PS won't be implemented soon, so you're right, no need to be excited.
AFAIK, the module has the integrated circuits needed to make PS, so IMO it's more reasonable than asking for more effects or USB-midi connection, wich would add a lot of latency.
Quote from: Jman on January 24, 2012, 03:55:13 AM
How did you determine how many unique hits ... not really arguing this, but not sure?
Create midi sequence containing the note number of interest. For example wholenotes of C1. One note per velocity, 1 thru 127. Mute all mics and channels exept for the one we want. Bounce to file. Normalize every individual hit. Cut every hit out and save as separate files. Start position must be the same
down to the sample. Put each of these files on separate tracks. Phase invert channel one. Check all channels against channel one to see which one phase cancel each other out. Those that do are redundant and can be removed. Then check channel 2 against all the rest, then channel 3 etc. You will at the end of the process be left with those that occur only once.
... yes , clever procedure ! cant lie this way...
Quote from: Krillo on January 24, 2012, 05:43:34 PM
Create midi sequence containing the note number of interest. For example wholenotes of C1. One note per velocity, 1 thru 127. Mute all mics and channels exept for the one we want. Bounce to file. Normalize every individual hit. Cut every hit out and save as separate files. Start position must be the same down to the sample. Put each of these files on separate tracks. Phase invert channel one. Check all channels against channel one to see which one phase cancel each other out. Those that do are redundant and can be removed. Then check channel 2 against all the rest, then channel 3 etc. You will at the end of the process be left with those that occur only once.
Sounds pretty thorough to me :)
In case anyone wondered about the 2box external triggers, here you go...
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/bigalinoz/DSC_0901.jpg)
Nice dessign
i wonder when those external triggers will be available , and how much they wiil be.. Interesting that it doesnt seems to hold on a lug bolt
Quote from: Krillo on January 24, 2012, 05:43:34 PM
Create midi sequence containing the note number of interest. For example wholenotes of C1. One note per velocity, 1 thru 127. Mute all mics and channels exept for the one we want. Bounce to file. Normalize every individual hit. Cut every hit out and save as separate files. Start position must be the same down to the sample. Put each of these files on separate tracks. Phase invert channel one. Check all channels against channel one to see which one phase cancel each other out. Those that do are redundant and can be removed. Then check channel 2 against all the rest, then channel 3 etc. You will at the end of the process be left with those that occur only once.
I keep wondering about this........
A) Did the process involve using SD's "humanization" features when generating the files ?
B) What do the "humanization" features actually do? If all they do is randomize the velocity then they
will indeed be cancelled out by Krillo's technique - but I imagined the features doing more than this
(so in that theory they shouldn't cancel even if based on the same physical recorded strike).
C) What if there are, say, 17 discrete velocity layers, but each layer comprises multiple hits which have
been normalized as per their velocity?
Just thinking aloud....... :)
Quote from: Slap the drummer on February 14, 2012, 04:22:25 PM
I keep wondering about this........
A) Did the process involve using SD's "humanization" features when generating the files ?
B) What do the "humanization" features actually do? If all they do is randomize the velocity then they will indeed be cancelled out by Krillo's technique - but I imagined the features doing more than this (so in that theory they shouldn't cancel even if based on the same physical recorded strike).
C) What if there are, say, 17 discrete velocity layers, but each layer comprises multiple hits which have been normalized as per their velocity?
Just thinking aloud....... :)
Sorry for the late answer, I haven't been logged in here in a while.
A) I don't know. I didn't spend much time with the software (this whole process was time consuming enough ;D) I left everything as it were, so if humanization is on by default, then it was on...
What I can say is that there was a quite clear range in which a number of samples would occur and re-occur. Beyond a certain velocity level, the earlier ones became less frequent, and some new ones was introduced.
B) The actual level of playback of the samples would vary. Let's say that sample A would be triggered at velocity 80 and then again at 83, the one at 80 could actually be louder than the one at 83. This is probably the humanization feature.
C) I don't think so, but the thought did strike me, that there would be different samples played back at different times, so that some of them actually were missing in my test. Since the ear is the most sensitive to rapidly re-ocurring hits of the same sample, it would make no sense in having some samples play back more rarely than once every 127 hits.
Thanks Krillo - interesting experiment for sure.
Shame SD can't be a bit more open about their procedure. BFD for instance state very clearly
that their basic library has (from memory) 48 separate hits per instrument (where appropriate)
up to the Deluxe extension which has 127 hits.
For all that .dsnd files from SD still sound good to my ears.
I guess the key question for some of us is:- is it better to turn the humanization features off
when we're exporting for .dsnd ? Sounds like the answer is yes from what you're saying.
:patbat2box:
I also noticed some velocity variation when trying to make a kick from SD 2.2. After making the dsnd file, I noticed that velocities varied when they should have increased from low to high. I think I will turn of humanizing and maybe the randomizing feature and try again, especially since I'm only using 11 to 16 individual hits.