Hi guys,
To those of you who've had a chance to try out the kit, what do you think of the cymbals? How do they compare to the Roland and Yamaha cymbals? I like the sound of them, but I was wondering what they are like in terms of feel and quality.
Cheers.
The sound is much better than those Yamaha and Roland cymbals
The feel is not 100% okay, but the software update certainly will improve it.
The choking is very good. Ride and bell positions do separate good
but sometimes there are some irregularities when playing a fast pattern
puttenvr, you can't question taste. Sound has nothing to do with the reliability of the hardware itself.
I find the cymbals fischer-pricy, yet less durable.
I doubt that software will solve most of the downsides these cymbals have.
I think puttenvr is right - in that it's not the cymbal sounds themselves that will be updated (they're already great), but the way the drum-brain handles the input.
Imagine for instance playing a midi keyboard to trigger a really good grand piano soft-synth or rompler or whatever...If things like the latency of your soundcard or the keyboard's velocity handling isn't handled right, the 'feel' of the piano won't be good.
So if the responsiveness and consistency of the drumit triggering is improved further, it will definitely have a big effect on the 'feel' - ie how your brain perceives what's happening when you hit the cymbal and what your ears subsequently pick up and process and feed back in...
In terms of the cymbal hardware, have you broken one yet Nussbaum? (honest question about you saying they're less durable - I'm not trolling :)).
I know there have been one or two reports of bad cymbals, but I think those individual cases have been resolved by good customer service, sorting out replacements. I think it's unfair to call them 'fisher pricy' - the Yamaha and Roland ones are every bit as rubbery, it's the nature of the e-drum beast - I guess most people don't want their triggers to have their own acoustic properties. I think the Drumit cymbals have a good weight to them. That's just my taste though!
The sounds themselves are (in my opinion) better than Yamaha's and Roland's, and anyway if you don't like them, you'll be able to upload your wavs or aiffs come the new software release :)
Quote from: Nussbaum on October 10, 2009, 09:09:44 PM
puttenvr, you can't question taste.
The first question was:
what do you think of the cymbals?The second question was:
but I was wondering what they are like in terms of feel and qualityI think my reply is a good mix of answers to both questions and agree what UC says
Quote from: UC on October 10, 2009, 10:36:10 PM
I think puttenvr is right - in that it's not the cymbal sounds themselves that will be updated (they're already great), but the way the drum-brain handles the input.
Imagine for instance playing a midi keyboard to trigger a really good grand piano soft-synth or rompler or whatever...If things like the latency of your soundcard or the keyboard's velocity handling isn't handled right, the 'feel' of the piano won't be good.
So if the responsiveness and consistency of the drumit triggering is improved further, it will definitely have a big effect on the 'feel' - ie how your brain perceives what's happening when you hit the cymbal and what your ears subsequently pick up and process and feed back in...
In terms of the cymbal hardware, have you broken one yet Nussbaum? (honest question about you saying they're less durable - I'm not trolling :)).
I know there have been one or two reports of bad cymbals, but I think those individual cases have been resolved by good customer service, sorting out replacements. I think it's unfair to call them 'fisher pricy' - the Yamaha and Roland ones are every bit as rubbery, it's the nature of the e-drum beast - I guess most people don't want their triggers to have their own acoustic properties. I think the Drumit cymbals have a good weight to them. That's just my taste though!
The sounds themselves are (in my opinion) better than Yamaha's and Roland's, and anyway if you don't like them, you'll be able to upload your wavs or aiffs come the new software release :)
Hi there.I ve been reading a lot of forums on the 2box and have been lurking here a lot ( also not trolling ;)).Would there be a way to determine wheter or not it is fixable with the upcomming update? For instance when someone reports that a 3 zone cymbal only triggers 2 zones like reported on this forum,can you be sure that is because of a software related problem?
On uploading sounds, it looks like you will be able to easily upload a sample and I have no doubt that a simple sample is possible,yet I don't have access to a studio like the studio 2box uses to make multichannel and multi-layered samples.Where would I get samples that offer the same quality and functionality of the sounds that now come in the 2box brain?
Hi Calimero, nice to have you on board, and good questions - I'm going to have to leave the first to techie experts like Scott from Hand in Hand (come in Scott, you receiving?)
As for the second question... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=high+quality+drum+samples :)
My own real interest lies in importing less realistic sounds into the kit to play live trip-hop and drum'n'bass type stuff...my bag is chopping up breakbeats into individual hits and noises to trigger, in a package like Audacity...Free and simple and there are loops sites all over the interwebs to grab raw material from :)
That "google" site is hilarious,I have not seen that before,LOL.
The thing is though ,I ve googled before and just like now it is hard to find any samples that would quallify.90% of the links are about loops,5% of them are sites that make me go hmm don't download here,and the other 5% are simple small samples.It was my understanding that the 2box uses multi-layered samples.Please correct me if I'm wrong,but I thought that means that when I hit a pad with different dynamics,the brain picks the sample that goes with that velocity.Or when I hit near the rim I get a sample with a sound that was hit closer to the rim.Or isn't that the way it works?In that sence you have to have a rather big file for each sample.It would be nice to have some more insight on how this feature is going to work,because now it really confuses me a bit if they say that you can simply replace the sounds.
I thought 3rd party very high quality sample sets would be availible via BFD, SD etc ,but it doesn't sound like they have got that worked out yet. It maybe after Drumit5 becomes a huge success we will see some more interest in making the high quality samples that this kit can use.
I'll be honest, I was assuming that I'd be able to use available tools to create multi samples but that's got me wondering now. Time to fire off a quick email to Bengt...
Bengt is actually in China right now, checking over the latest production run which is nearly green for go. I think it's looking like we'll be getting the functionality we're clammering for but because of development issues, we'll be getting it incrementally - no groans please, I reckon it's better to get good updates slowly than bad updates quickly!
There's going to be a utility to port singles samples over (not kits yet), coming out hopefully before the end of the year, with the full-blown Editor software planned for early 2010, which I think most people expected.
The utility will actually do the "Drumitification", which means that if you want to use sounds from a library (eg from BFD), you'll need to resample them yourself to Wav and put them through the utility.
Here's a thought - maybe we can start pestering the Drum Library producers to include Drumit-compatible versions of their stuff, as they'll be leveraging existing assetts for relatively little effort? Worth a try perhaps...Let's start a petition!
QuoteIt was my understanding that the 2box uses multi-layered samples.Please correct me if I'm wrong,but I thought that means that when I hit a pad with different dynamics,the brain picks the sample that goes with that velocity.Or when I hit near the rim I get a sample with a sound that was hit closer to the rim.Or isn't that the way it works?In that sence you have to have a rather big file for each sample.It would be nice to have some more insight on how this feature is going to work,because now it really confuses me a bit if they say that you can simply replace the sounds.
Calimero is right.
We all need more informations.
In France, drummers are asking the same questions.
Official word is that the utility (due Dec) will handle single shot samples.
Multisample functionality will be with the full-on editor. I can live with that!
Quote from: UC on October 15, 2009, 03:40:21 PM
Bengt is actually in China right now, checking over the latest production run which is nearly green for go. I think it's looking like we'll be getting the functionality we're clammering for but because of development issues, we'll be getting it incrementally - no groans please, I reckon it's better to get good updates slowly than bad updates quickly!
There's going to be a utility to port singles samples over (not kits yet), coming out hopefully before the end of the year, with the full-blown Editor software planned for early 2010, which I think most people expected.
The utility will actually do the "Drumitification", which means that if you want to use sounds from a library (eg from BFD), you'll need to resample them yourself to Wav and put them through the utility.
Thank you for the reply,but I wish it was some better news.This means that we can't expect a full complete functional set before 2010. :( And it still leaves me with the same questions.When I sample a sound from bfd it becomes a simple wav file and then I have to sample some more yet at different velocities,or will this 'drumitfication' do some magic and work it out itself?On the other hand there is the new Alesis comming and from what I understand it should be able to load soundsets from bfd or 3rd party developers.They also are a bit vague on how it is going to work.Anyway,I appreciate that you took some time to figure this out with Bengt.I'll just have to wait and see.
Please can you explain the difference between single shot sample and multisample?
Quote from: UC on October 15, 2009, 03:40:21 PMI think it's looking like we'll be getting the functionality we're clammering for but because of development issues, we'll be getting it incrementally - no groans please, I reckon it's better to get good updates slowly than bad updates quickly!
Shouldn't you perhaps refrase that to: It's better to get a good kit later than a half one quickly?
Actually I find it quite disturbing that 2box promises very awaited updates in Octobre, to only prsent a delay once IN Octobre!
@westerlu77 - basically a multisample takes the velocity value of your physical drum hit, and the drum brain (or sampler or whatever) plays back one of a number of samples that have been mapped according to that velocity - that way you can simulate more natural characteristics from each hit (like including audible snare buzz on a kick drum played more quietly, or getting rid of the 'machinegun' effect when you do a roll with an unchanging drum sound...). A single-shot will just trigger that one sound and it will sound the same every time (maybe just the volume will be changed according to how hard you hit).
@Calimero ...I know what you mean, but hang in there. I'm getting my kit in a few weeks - and in all honesty, if I could have afforded it sooner, I would have bought when the first batch hit the shops. I've spent a good few hours playing the drumit over the last few months, in a shop with whole rooms devoted to V-drums and Yamahas, and I've given them all a good thrashing, and I still feel that bang-for-buck, it's better than any other e-drum kit in the price range, even with the current OS.
If you're considering buying but not sure, I would say don't jump into getting something else if you can wait a bit longer. And certainly go to the Alesis site (http://www.alesis.com/dm10prokit#16) and listen to their samples. Hmm.
For multisamples (if you really can't live without a particular drum sound from BFD or whatever), one way to do it would be to set up a really simple midi track in a sequencer with say 4 - 8 beats on the same instrument, evenly spaced to play out the full tail of each hit, and draw in distinct velocity envelopes for each note, so you get a good range. Bounce down the audio to a wav, and then chop it up, naming each slice as you go. I can't see myself doing this to be honest, except maybe to add a subtle FX change on each hit and come up with some weird combinations, like filter cutoffs controlled by velocity, or maybe increasing overdrive or something. Would be great for some heavy d'n'b I reckon. You could even really mash up the pitch of the drum. Lots of possibilities!
@Nussbaum - Windows Vista became pretty good after Service Pack 1, and Microsoft never apologised for getting people to pay for it up to that point :)
Seriously though, I wouldn't spend this much money on anything without researching it carefully first. If you're not sure, wait until you're either happy with the product or decide it's not right for you.
I'd like to state for the record that no-one has paid me to write any of this, I'm just an old DDrum4 fanboy, and I'm putting my money where my mouth is in the next couple of weeks. :)
I think they are doin pretty good so far. I mean they are making from what I can tell a far superior product than any thing out there. They are a small outfit so we are lucky we're seeing as soon as we are. Nobody else is doing it.
Yeah, all I can say is I love my kit even with its flaws. And I'm warmed with the knowledge that all the flaws that bother me are software related and will eventually be fixed. I imagine by mid next year with say the 4th batch of kits the price might well go up, so get in now and grab a bargain ;)
Does this also mean that the updates that were announced regarding the hihat-fix and other little issues are delayed until the end of the year/early 2010?
Hey Calimero
No, I think the OS update is on track for end of October still.
cheers
Tom
I'm having a problem with one of my cymbal channels, but I think it's with teh unit rather than the pad. Crash 1 for some reasons doesn't always trigger the right edge sound. It does for the first two or three hits once a kit has been selected, but after that it plays the bell sound on the edge!
Anyone have any ideas of what might be going on here?
you could check if your cymbal suffers from the same problem as mine did. one of the three cables that connects the pad to the triggeroutput got damaged when the metal block was attached at the factory resulting in a broken cable that would sometimestrigger and sometimes not.
I shortened that part of the cable and resoldered the rest. Works ok now.
But be careful when you unscrew the metal block because the cables are rather short!
Hi Dr Wu. It seems that isn't the problem with mine. The pad is fine if I put it in the Cymbal 2 input. It's Cymbal 1 that's the problem, even when I give it exactly the same settings as Cymbal 2 (eg. Gain 4, Threshold 36). I've IM'd Scottie to see if he has any thoughts.
Problem sorted. Great service from Scott at Hand in Hand. It's all good!
What was causing the problem and how was it fixed?
Don't know. Hand in Hand replaced the unit!
Good deal
What about the idea to sell also a bigger cymbal so it looks like a ride instead of a crash?
I never saw that in E-drums but it seems such a simple solutions to me. Anybody else?
Quote from: hdevr000 on January 03, 2010, 08:48:45 PM
What about the idea to sell also a bigger cymbal so it looks like a ride instead of a crash?
I never saw that in E-drums but it seems such a simple solutions to me. Anybody else?
Yep. I'd buy one of those :)
Where is Scott when you need him :drum2:
Quote from: hdevr000 on January 03, 2010, 08:48:45 PM
What about the idea to sell also a bigger cymbal so it looks like a ride instead of a crash?
I never saw that in E-drums but it seems such a simple solutions to me. Anybody else?
I like it. But I wouldn't get my hopes up. They just want to keep things small. I feel sorry for anyone that is really large. Edrums to me look like they where designed for midgits.
Hi Everyone
From the beginning 2box has had plans to produce different size pads, and i believe it was mentioned in the brochure as well:
"Two 14" cymbals come with the DrumIt Five, whilst other sizes including splash and crash will be available at a later date" ;)
Hope this info helps
Scott
Any news on what sizes the pads will be? The brochure said 8 to 14 inch. Will the 14 inch be available other than the bass drum?
Quote from: wbrs on January 08, 2010, 04:46:22 PM
Any news on what sizes the pads will be? The brochure said 8 to 14 inch. Will the 14 inch be available other than the bass drum?
I think a 14 inch tom is too big to mount on a 2box rack or am I wrong?
Dunno
Never tried
Quote from: puttenvr on October 02, 2009, 03:00:40 PM
The sound is much better than those Yamaha and Roland cymbals
The feel is not 100% okay, but the software update certainly will improve it.
The choking is very good. Ride and bell positions do separate good
but sometimes there are some irregularities when playing a fast pattern
I agree with this, looking forward to the next update.
Quote from: roel on April 23, 2010, 11:32:27 PM
I think a 14 inch tom is too big to mount on a 2box rack or am I wrong?
Can be done
Hi !
Mybe should not write it this way but I do anyway.
Does anybody know from where in Sweden I can buy one separate extra Cymbal with clamps/arm and cable for expansion ?
//Claes1965
Quote from: Sam H on October 01, 2009, 09:43:16 PM
Hi guys,
To those of you who've had a chance to try out the kit, what do you think of the cymbals? How do they compare to the Roland and Yamaha cymbals? I like the sound of them, but I was wondering what they are like in terms of feel and quality.
Cheers.
There aren't any spare parts for sale
And 2Box owner won't sell their last (only) 2 cymbals
Quote from: claes1965 on May 21, 2010, 01:46:08 PM
Hi !
Mybe should not write it this way but I do anyway.
Does anybody know from where in Sweden I can buy one separate extra Cymbal with clamps/arm and cable for expansion ?
//Claes1965
Hi Claes, try with the wholesaler - Svensk Musik TTS (http://www.tts.se/).
Guys im shattered!!! one of my cymbals is jammed, it sounds like its being choked all the time, and then depending on where I hit it I get a good sound here and there.
Anyone know what tha hell is wrong? Has the hardware really given out after only 7 months????
Also absolutely no idea where to have them repaired in the UK? Or where to get a new spare one??
Please remove the rubber cover and look if all metal squares around the circle are still in good shape, don't stand up
Is the cable still okay?
If you connect the same cymbal to another input, does it respond (malfuntion) the same?
Quote from: PonyTom on August 09, 2010, 07:06:29 PM
..one of my cymbals is jammed, it sounds like its being choked all the time, and then depending on where I hit it I get a good sound here and there.
Same here buddy...same here
Quote from: puttenvr on August 09, 2010, 07:56:52 PM
Please remove the rubber cover and look if all metal squares around the circle are still in good shape, don't stand up Is the cable still okay? If you connect the same cymbal to another input, does it respond (malfuntion) the same?
I've done this several times, and after that it works (despite the fact that none of the flaps is broken or touching the metal plate). but after some minutes playing the problem comes back.
Actually I realized about it from the very first moment I got the kit, back that time I disabled the choke option for that cymbal and voila....however, as I wanted to have choked sounds, I enabled it once again and more or less it worked till couple of weeks ago when the problem was noticeable systematic.
Also, I've seen (and might be logic) that the cable coils around the stand, and once it reaches the limit (see attached pic) the cymbal rises the frecuency of choked sounds (almost eveery stroke). Is that normal?....if so, the guys at Sweden should try to prevent that movement that leads the cable to coil itself.
Agree. I haven´t had any kind of issues yet, but there ought to be a wayto prevent the cymbals from spinning around. Maybe someone here have a solution?
Quote from: p929 on August 10, 2010, 06:10:39 PM
Same here buddy...same here
Same (almost) here too!
When I first got the kit a month ago, the choke and bell trigger for one of the 2 cymbals were not working. After asking Scottie for advice (thanks!) I dissembled the mount and the wires were fine. When I put it back again and played, every single hit was choked!! I repeated the procedure and moved the wires a bit, and it seems fine now.
Obviously the wiring inside the cymbal mount is extremely sensitive in terms of placement...I wonder if there is a robust way to get around with that? Otherwise I think it will come back again and it will be nasty when all of a sudden each hit is choked during a live show :-[...