as the previous thread about faulty cymbal triggering vanished into cyberspace, i'm starting a new one...
i whipped up this garish diagram to make it easier to explain how the triggering works on both my 14" crash/ride cymbals.
- firstly, Zone 8 (the edge) seems to be fine, as does the choke mechanism.
- the red areas are where Zone 3 is triggered (as you can see, most of the bell is also Zone 3, although much louder than the bow).
- the purple areas are where Zone 1 is triggered. in the area where it triggers on the bow, it is quieter than on the bell itself.
presumably Zone 3 should only trigger on the bow, and Zone 1 only on the bell...
i have been in communication with Bengt about this issue, and i will keep this thread updated as i find out more.
(http://www.fishmonkey.com.au/pubpix/2box-cymbal-triggering.jpg)
My eyes! My eyes! ;D
As admin of the board I've got to apologise for the missing thread, although I haven't a clue how or why it happened, and it seems like the originator of the thread doesn't know either!
Cheers
Tom
Yes, I haven't got a clue about what happened to the previous thread.
Just to remind everyone that I took off the rubber and everything triggered perfectly which indicates some kind of isolation problem through the rubber?
I know it's a bit risky, but seem as they don't work properly anyway, I thought I may as well try it and with interesting results!
Zone 3 should just be the bow and Zone 1 should just be the bell.
I recognized the problem.
- The rubber disc in the middle does not stick.
- The rubber disc is warped and very stiff.
- The rubber disc is dirty.
- The adhesive is poorly served.
spiritus and a hairdryer helps :)
.
.
Whoops. This better be fixed before the next released. =/ I can take software-based problem, but I won't buy products with hardware-problem.
Quote from: hwasser on March 18, 2010, 02:41:14 PM
Whoops. This better be fixed before the next released. =/ I can take software-based problem, but I won't buy products with hardware-problem.
I have not had any experience with any listed problems on the 2box kit so far, other than the whole hihat issue.
But if suddenly there is any hardware problems, Bengt and the guys MUST give good instruction on repairing the cymbs or triggers and so on...
Then they can focus on software and editor stuff....
Wich glue too use, replacementrubber what kind of rubber is it? everything used on 2box kit, must be registered with a code or number, so that we can order it or something close ourself.
Hey AA,
Since you have found the culprit to the faulty triggering, have you corrected the problem by glueing the rubber properly? And if you have performed this, would you say that the problem is 100% solved?
Quote from: 3drum on March 18, 2010, 05:37:53 PM
Hey AA,
Since you have found the culprit to the faulty triggering, have you corrected the problem by glueing the rubber properly? And if you have performed this, would you say that the problem is 100% solved?
the triggering of the bell is only correct with a proper mounting of the rubber disc. I have tested this successfully without rubber coat.
after an hour, the connection again loosened. the rubber is too stiff and does not stick permanently.
I will replace the tape and try again.
Hey AA,
Keep us posted on your progress. Someone from 2box should respond to this thread. Their silence is almost an admission of guilt!
the trigger has now become a little cleaner (new tape). But there are small areas of Zone 3 in the bell (Zone 1), which are very loud. with and without rubber disc!
may be the mounting of the pizzo is not optimal?
it reassures me that many people also have the problem. But it needs to be solved anyway.
i took the rubber off one of my cymbals, and the rubber disc is bonded to the main piece of rubber by some stray adhesive. the disc wasn't glued to the metal at all, i didn't even realise that it was supposed to be a separate piece...
this is an answer to our questions? See screenshot.
or this...
I'm sure there is no electronic problem.
The trigger is probably not in the middle. The rubber disc is to compensate for this.
that does not work correctly!
and now, mr. bengt?
what about the hihat,have you had a look at that?
I have no problems with the Hi-Hat :)
Quote from: AA_ on March 19, 2010, 11:26:27 AM
The trigger is probably not in the middle. The rubber disc is to compensate for this.
i am not so sure about that, it seems to me that the rubber disc is meant to transfer the bell hits to center area of the metal, and at the same time isolate them from the rest of the metal surface...
what i do know is that the top of the rubber disc is supposed to be glued to the softer main rubber, and the bottom of the disc needs to be glued evenly to the metal...
It's reverted back to it's old ways! >:(
Is there any cymbal out there that is compatible with the 2box and will trigger accurately?
Thanks
Quote from: tim1987 on March 25, 2010, 04:08:02 PM
It's reverted back to it's old ways! >:(
Is there any cymbal out there that is compatible with the 2box and will trigger accurately?
Thanks
yes I want to know this too, I ask some couple of times are the smartrigger or hart dynamics cymbals and hihats compatible with the drumit 5 module??? can anybody try this out? answer my question please.
Quote from: roel on March 25, 2010, 05:12:06 PM
yes I want to know this too, I ask some couple of times are the smartrigger or hart dynamics cymbals and hihats compatible with the drumit 5 module??? can anybody try this out? answer my question please.
Guys forum member Viina has already posted multiple times saying that the Yamaha PCY-135/155 3 zone cymbals work on the 2Box as he has tested them...they are highly regarded e-cymbals and very well priced.
Roel, calm down
Hart Dynamics is used by some folks in the USA, merely Vdrum users
At this moment there isn't a single 2Box overseas. So: how could they try that out?
Same for Smart Trigger
And why do you think those cymbals will respond better than the 2Box cymbals?
I don't get your best of both worlds, either. Acouctic and electronics would be a best of borth worlds
"Best of both world"
best on 2box :sounds
best on yamaha : hardware
get sounds from 2box ,hardware from yamaha you get best of both worlds.. :drum1:
I'm not quite sure about that, maybe on cymbals but for the pads ... and the yamie rack looks awful.
Quote from: Calimero on March 25, 2010, 09:30:37 PM
"Best of both world"
best on 2box :sounds
best on yamaha : hardware
get sounds from 2box ,hardware from yamaha you get best of both worlds.. :drum1:
+1 for Yamaha Hardware. They do after all make motor cycle parts, and I think a lot of their hardware is made in the same factories. So they know a thing or two about making hardware in general, and not just in the music business. I've still got all the hardware from my old yamaha tour custom accoustic kit, which I got around 17 years ago. Its been through hell and back, and its still in good condition and working order. All double braced - even the base drum pedal that came with it is still going strong! I've never used better stands and pedals to be honest for the price. Never had a yamaha rack so can't comment on how good they are, but if anyone can recommend a compatible rack for the 2Box feel free.
As for what's the best combination, in my opinion I think the 2Box snare, tom and base drum sounds are good enough to use live for even a pro - I have heard many big bands using Roland live and it just doesn't work. Example - Rick Wakeman - The 6 wives of Henry the 8th live at Hampton Court Palace - its a blu-ray in HD so good sound quality played through my 200 watt floor standers, and the drummer is using a TD-20. Straight away, you can hear that trademark 'fake COSM sound' a mile away and they stand out in the mix, in a bad way. Because the way v-drums work using COSM algorithms instead of real samples, your ear will tell you straight away that this is not a real drum when you hear it, and so your mind does not accept it. (Please correct me if its only me that feels this way). Several musicians I know have heard the 2Box without knowing whether it was an accoustic or electronic, and could not tell the difference when its in the mix - that says a lot to me.
As an ex-Roland v-drum owner, it was like being in the Matrix. You wake up every day and play your Roland kit, but you know
something is wrong. You're not quite sure what it is, but you can feel it every day. You can feel it when you eat, when you go to work. You can feel it in the thousands of dollars gone from your bank account. You can sense it in the insulting way that your module is filled with sounds of dogs barking and bubbles that you will never, ever use. Thats how I felt almost every day of the 8 years I used v-drums for. Until I was offered the choice of the Blue pill (more Roland) or the Orange pill (the unknown world of 2Box). I wasn't sure I wanted to see how deep the rabbit hole went at first, and it has been a bumby ride, knowing I'm now one of the few remaining drummers in Zion and not part of the huge army of swarming v-drum owning squiddies who want to tear me to shreds. I digress... ;)
But I have to say that you simply cannot reproduce a real cymbal's characteristics, playability or subtlety using samples or algorithms and an e-pad. As far as I am concerned it is a pointless exercise - real cymbals just sound better, they're better to play as a surface, they offer more control to the player, they are far more dynamic. For home use or triggering other sounds I will keep my 2Box cymbals of course - they are perfectly good e-cymbals. But for recording and live, it has to be real metals my friends...
Amen to that
I also have Yamaha cymbal stands with my acoustic set. They're great an I very much recommend Yamaha hardware. I wish though I had someone to carry them for me, they're damn heavy.
About those yamaha cymbals (now im going to buy 2box kit when I know I can buy 2nd crash (or primary ride, it depends on which i prefer, both are 3 ride with choke), how do I mount it with the 2box? Do I have to buy a yamaha cymbalmount arm (does it fit to the 2box rack?) or do I have to buy a ordinary cymbal stand?
Quote from: Baby Samus on March 26, 2010, 03:14:35 AM
Rick Wakeman - The 6 wives of Henry the 8th
wow.... I use to spend hours listening to this music...
Quote from: hwasser on March 26, 2010, 08:19:00 AM
Do I have to buy a yamaha cymbalmount arm (does it fit to the 2box rack?) or do I have to buy a ordinary cymbal stand?
Yes it fits to 2box rack. Also dixon rack clamps.
Quote from: viina on March 26, 2010, 09:57:02 AM
Yes it fits to 2box rack. Also dixon rack clamps.
Do I have to buy additional clamps also?
So those may work?
http://www.musicstore.com/en_EN/EUR/Drums/E-drum-hardware/Yamaha-Cymbal-Boom-Arm-CYAT65-for-drumrack-RS-70/art-DRU0007718-000
i don't mean to be rude, but could you guys should start a new thread about alternative cymbals and hardware, as this thread is being derailed...
Quote from: fishmonkey on March 26, 2010, 10:30:38 AM
i don't mean to be rude, but could you guys should start a new thread about alternative cymbals and hardware, as this thread is being derailed...
Sorry, just final question before the buy button :(
Quote from: hwasser on March 26, 2010, 10:18:53 AM
Do I have to buy additional clamps also?
So those may work?
http://www.musicstore.com/en_EN/EUR/Drums/E-drum-hardware/Yamaha-Cymbal-Boom-Arm-CYAT65-for-drumrack-RS-70/art-DRU0007718-000
no need for additional. those works. when add to the rack you need much hand power:)
Quote from: puttenvr on March 25, 2010, 06:05:22 PM
Roel, calm down
Hart Dynamics is used by some folks in the USA, merely Vdrum users
At this moment there isn't a single 2Box overseas. So: how could they try that out?
Same for Smart Trigger
And why do you think those cymbals will respond better than the 2Box cymbals?
I don't get your best of both worlds, either. Acouctic and electronics would be a best of borth worlds
@ Puttenvr Iam going to buy the full 2box set soon I was asking this question because I've heard about some guys who's had troubles with the cymbal triggering. but Iam a huge fan of the 2box set and I can't wait till I get it.
Great news. On a dutch forum you wrote you only would buy the module,
but appearently things have changed
Cymbal problems certainly will be solved
Once ...
Quote from: puttenvr on April 01, 2010, 07:57:43 PM
Great news. On a dutch forum you wrote you only would buy the module,
but appearently things have changed
Cymbal problems certainly will be solved
Once ...
yes that's correct but I have changed my mind,I will go for a complete 2box set.Iam from Holland, where can I buy this set,does any store have them at this moment?
Try Feedback (Rotterdam) or Eiland (Arnhem)
Otherwise order it in Germany at Music Store , Köln
Quote from: puttenvr on April 02, 2010, 03:00:15 PM
Try Feedback (Rotterdam) or Eiland (Arnhem)
Otherwise order it in Germany at Music Store , Köln
Thanx for your advice. :rock:
I got my Drumit 5 yesterday and I've got exactly the same problems with the triggering on the cymbals. The cymbals on the kit I've played before ordering mine worked perfectly so I'm a bit disappointed by this. Is 2box gonna replace the cymbals? Because I don't think buying yamaha cymbals should be the solution to this.
from what's been said, the Yamaha cymbals are not completely compatible anyway, so they're not really a solution...
Quote from: tjemeu on April 03, 2010, 07:40:20 PM
The cymbals on the kit I've played before ordering mine worked perfectly
Uhh... also a 2Box?
I have a first production kit and they didn't change the cymbals
So it's a software problem? Which can be solved?
Hey Put,
If you have the original cymbals, and the latest software installed, then you too should also have cymbal triggering issues. That means it's a hardware problem and not a software problem.
Quote from: 3drum on April 04, 2010, 11:55:17 AM
Hey Put,
If you have the original cymbals, and the latest software installed, then you too should also have cymbal triggering issues. That means it's a hardware problem and not a software problem.
so what is the issue with the cymbals? what's wrong with them?
reread the first page of this topic ..
Quote from: 3drum on April 04, 2010, 11:55:17 AM
Hey Put,
If you have the original cymbals, and the latest software installed, then you too should also have cymbal triggering issues. That means it's a hardware problem and not a software problem.
No cause no updated have indicated to fix this problem. Maybe this will be improved in the next update .. or the one after that.
Many have described the problem deeply in this thread, even with images. So I'm sure the 2box-team have been taking a look on this.
First all people disliked the hihat. The hihat was improved 2 times, so I'm sure this will be improved as well! :)
Quote from: Baby Samus on March 26, 2010, 03:14:35 AM
As an ex-Roland v-drum owner, it was like being in the Matrix. You wake up every day and play your Roland kit, but you know something is wrong. You're not quite sure what it is, but you can feel it every day. You can feel it when you eat, when you go to work. You can feel it in the thousands of dollars gone from your bank account. You can sense it in the insulting way that your module is filled with sounds of dogs barking and bubbles that you will never, ever use.
Excellent description, you really nailed it!
Quote from: rythm on April 05, 2010, 06:31:14 PM
Excellent description, you really nailed it!
Thanks man - I sat and thought about that for like 5 minutes and actually laughed out loud when I thought of it, not because it was funny or anything but just because it was so fitting - I will use this analogy when anyone asks me why I switched now :D. Glad someone knows how I felt and why I'm in the Orange Army now.
As for the cymbals, I took the rubber off my ride, and the rubber itself just seems quite dense and unforgiving (i.e. not as bouncy as roland or yamaha). I prefer a little more rebound in my e-cymbals and so maybe we just need a little module update to fix the triggering issues with the bell, and a surface with more rebound. I mean if its just a rubber sleeve, surely 2Box can offer another material in the same mould or make a cover to slip over the current surface?
I find the same with the hi-hat, the surface just seems a little dead. Maybe its just me but I think the rubber needs to be have more rebound...
was the rubber glued to the metal in the centre?
Quote from: fishmonkey on April 06, 2010, 12:01:33 AM
was the rubber glued to the metal in the centre?
No it was not. I took the rubber sleeve off and the only thing that is glued to the cymbal is the large foam washer under the bell. I'm not sure the rubber itself is supposed to be glued to the aluminium, as there does not seem to be any applied to the rubber sleeve or aluminium plate. The rubber fits close to the aluminium plate when it slides on, doesn't seem to need any glue...
you're right, i'm sure the main rubber isn't meant to be glued, i was talking about the centre disc. you say yours is like "foam"? my centre disc is very firm, much harder than the play rubber...
Quote from: fishmonkey on April 06, 2010, 01:55:07 AM
you're right, i'm sure the main rubber isn't meant to be glued, i was talking about the centre disc. you say yours is like "foam"? my centre disc is very firm, much harder than the play rubber...
Yeah same on mine. I think a mod is brewing in the back of my mind - to be continued!
It would be nice if 2box answered in this thread though. If they have any plans on a software fix or such.
Maybe a PM to Scotty will work?
they are definitely working on the issues...
Hi all
I am having problem with on of my cymbals. When I have choke set to on, every sound cymbal makes is choked, like I was holding the edge of the cymbal all the time. I tried changing cables and different settings but it doesnt help. Has anyone had the same problem?
any help is much appreciated
Hi
Did you try to put the setting Type on Cym14?
Otherwise, remove the rubber of the cymbal and look if one of the small strips touches the edge permanently or is broken.
there is a new post from the 2box developers in this thread regarding the cymbal triggering issues:
http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,187.msg3577.html#msg3577