Hello,
my name is Denis and i just bought a drumit 5 mk1 unit (without the pads) which i'm trying to use via midi with my alesis crimson II kit.
So far, and thanks to this forum, i managed to map everything and i even ended up creating a chart with midi notes numbers and octaves correspondances for ease of use (find it at the end of my post).
My only problem seems to be the same as everybody else... the hi hat. A strange phenomenon occurs : more often than not, when i play open hi hat, the note's sustain goes on even if i close the hi hat pedal.
In the forum, even if this particular issue is not mentioned, @ANGR77 indicates that you must calibrate Hi Hat before proper use via midi. Could it fix that particular problem ? Beyond that, is there a way to calibrate hi hat when you don't have the original pad ord pedal (as i have neither of them) ?
Thank you for your help.
Here is the midi chart i made for Drumit 5 mk1 midi + crimson II (plus a few comments). I modified it from a html page and you can modify it too :
Drumit 5 mk1 midi map (https://drive.google.com/file/d/12CBPhLbVr7fXylpDurEujCqKmQtXq_gZ/view?usp=sharing)
I should have been more precise in the comments regarding crimson II : "no bow/edge differenciation in Crimson II HI HAT". It can detect bow/edge or center/rim in crashes toms and snare inputs, and bow/edge/bell in ride input.
(https://i.goopics.net/zm7trh.jpg)
Hi. From DI5 mk1 manual.
MIDI parameyer selects between continuous controller 1 or 4. The CC value range can be set from 0 when open to 127 when closed (arrow down) or from 0 when closed to 127 when open (arrow up). Normally MIDI pedal data is only sent just before a note on, selections with a ! indicate that pedal changes are sent continuously.
Pedal down (chick or splash) transmits control change and note on, the corresponding note off is send when the pedal moves up again. A short time between down and up results in a foot splash, a longer time results in a foot chick because a quick sound decay sets in when the pedal comes down, and is removed when the pedal moves up again. So a short time in between keeps most of the sound, while a long time will quiet the sound down.
Best, Deve
Hello and thank you very much for answering !
I just read my post again : i am sorry my question was not very clear !
I use drumit 5 as a « sound module » via midi, so it's more about what it expects to recieve.
The chick and splash work fine, i also can play open and close sounds.
The issue is just that when i play an open sound, it continues to ring even when i close the pedal. Crazy thing is that it goes on ringing even when i play and hear closed sounds. Sometimes it stops while i play closed sounds but it's not consistent.
I guess what i need to know is what kind of message does the unit needs to recieve in order to stop a « hi hat open » sample that has already been triggered. Is it a note off? Is it a cc4 (i tried both modes continuous or not) 0 value ?
Thank you again !
Hi.
I think (its been some years) you need a cc4 of 120 or more (test w 127), and than a note on (being the 3rd note nr from the base note, as bow is base note, edge 2nd, pedal 3rd) which than both initiates the foot chick or splash, and quickly decays the open sound.
Very maybe, the cc is not needed because of pedal having its own note, not sure though...
Thank a lot.
I guess it's possible the Alesis pedal sensor is a little bit old and doesn't go all the way to 120/127. I'll try and use a mod wheel instead just to test it...
I'm not home right now so i'll do that next week... i'll post the outcome, maybe it can help somebody.
Thanks again !
I'm back and i know what's the problem :
It's the foot note. When you press the pedal, the alesis crimson II sends a "note on" AND A "NOTE OFF" SHORTLY AFTER.
The drumit 5 module interprets it as a splash (a very quiet one as my foot is not heavy)and the sound keeps on ringing.
I recorded a short midi segment on reaper and tweaked a little. If i make the foot note longer the HH closes normally. In fact, the HH closes normally and opens again even if it never receives a note off.
It doesn't solve the issue as i cannot find a way to prevent the Alesis from sending that note off, but it gives me an idea : what if i made an arduino based gizmo that filters out that note off ? It will sacrifice the splash but the HH will be playable...
Hi Denis.
Yes, note on and off quickly will do a splash. You could filter out noye off, but it will always be chick. So not sure about
"opens again even if it never receives a note off".
Maybe the cc4 does that, I am not sure exactly about the implementation, long time ago...
I will take these issues into account for the future..
Hi Deve,
it is indeed the CC4 that opens the hi hat again when i send midi from reaper.
I'm starting to work on an arduino that will filter out the note off, replace the alesis splash note with quick note on/note off sequence. I will also look into the cymbals/ride as i think alesis sends aftertouch for the choke. I'll keep you posted.
What an incredible module the drumit 5 is... I have the crimson II, my brother had the TD12, a close friend the TD9... none of them is even close soundwise, and the possibility to build your own samples banks makes it so much more versatile. Not even talking about all those physical outs which are perfect for live applications. More than 10 years after, it is still a great module compared to the competition.
The more i look into it, the more I have the feeling that this was really designed with the musician's needs in mind, which is great and rare. It is tailored to mine anyway. I wish i had the money to buy the MkII. But it's a step up i can't make right now... ;D
Quote from: Dens on December 05, 2023, 09:31:17 AMI'm starting to work on an arduino that will filter out the note off,
Not to discourage your Arduino project, but you may also like to take a look at this MIDI Solutions (https://midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm) unit that can be programmed to do these kinds of tasks.
Cheers!
Ken
Hello,
and thank you for the tip! i've been looking for something like that but was never able to find anything suitable... but i' already built an arduino with midi in/out. I'm starting to code... for now i can use it as a thru, just have to learn the right commands in order to replace notes with other notes while keeping the same velocity. I'll keep you guys posted and will share my newbie code... maybe someone will have advices in order to improve it .
Anyway, thank you for your answer, i'm quite sure it will help someone roaming the forums like i was those last weeks...
Hi everybody,
so i finally achieved what i was trying to : an arduino uno translates my alesis Crimson II midi into Drumit 5 midi. As I'm a complete noob in coding it took me quite a while to figure it out, the code is far from perfect (even far from good) and i know i put things in there that don't serve much purpose... but it works :
I can now play the drums with the charley working as intended through midi.The trick was to block the first foot note off and send another one when the pedal is high enough. After that it was just rerouting midi notes.(plus translating the splash note of the Alesis into a note on / note off succession)
Anyone interested can have the code : you first have to find yourself an arduino, download the arduino IDE and the midi library (https://www.arduino.cc/reference/en/libraries/midi-library/), and then buy a midi shield or DIY one. It's not rocket science, i made mine following a "how to" ont internet. Those are the schematics you can see on midi.org (thanks Deve Loper)
(https://www.midi.org/images/specs/Screen_Shot_2020-07-18_at_12.20.08_PM.png)
(https://www.midi.org/images/specs/Screen_Shot_2020-07-18_at_12.20.23_PM.png)
Once you have the hardware working, you have to know the midi implementation of the device you want to use as a master for your Drumit 5 (i will soon make a version for a TD9), and adapt what i've done for it to work with your hardware (i labelled the drumset parts in the code)
Here is the link to the code for arduino :
(Before you download it, I have to tell you that i added a variable named pedalAdjust and set it to 20. I use it to fine tune my own hi hat pedal by adding 20 or 10 to the cc4 signal sent by the crimson II. If you find that the hi hat closes too quickly, set it to 0 (or any number you see fit) at line 28 in "void setup".)
Alesis2Drumit5 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19A0-agydg8H6xIecy39jqqhixTgAYHgwRK0yQ86IYrU/edit?usp=sharing)
BUT... I still have one problem... and i'm calling for your help again, o Deve Loper : the Drumit5 documentation tells me the cymbals chokes are notes 67for cymbal 1, 74 for cymbal 2 and 79 for cymbal 3. But when i send those notes to the drumit 5 the cymbals keep on ringing. Would you have an idea of what i'm doing wrong ?
Thanks a lot for your help on this thread, it really was needed for me to succeed. The module is a joy to play and hear.
Ok, my bad for the choke, Deve has alredy answered that question in 2021 :
February 09, 2021, 10:09:34 PM
Hi. Well, this is as it should be. For the original DrumIt version (upto 1.22), I made a choke which resembles a real choke.
Just pinching a real cymbal a short time does not choke it all the way.
But hold it longer and it dies out.
So on DrumIt, start of pinch is note on (on zone9), end of pinch, note off. The longer time, the more energy is dissipated, the lower the volume.
In your case, can you set the controller to have a longer time between note on and off for each hit?
For regular DrumIt trigger the note off is ignored, so you can set it longer for all notes on your controller.
Anyway, I will make a setting for it in the future...
Best, Deve"
So i will modify my code accordingly...
The choke problem is fixed. But, as this is my first code, i'm afraid the solution is not very elegant: the choke part is divided in 2 parts. One inside the switch statement for noteOn, the other one outside for noteOff.
As long as it works, i guess...
Note for people who will want to use another drum unit as master : the Alesis Crimson sends aftertouch for choke. Your particular unit may send some other message. Once again you will have to adapt the code.
Hi Dens.
Great you got it working.
Just note the midi out diagram is not really right, see here
https://www.midi.org/specifications-old/item/midi-din-electrical-specification
Best,
Deve.
Thanks for the correction Deve, i indeed searched for a few different tutorials, i tweaked a little with different things i found on them. Anyway, i corrected the schematics so nobody gets misled.
Hi, I have a related question: I want to control the hihat of an old Drummit5 with a DIY drum controller build with STM32. Does anyone no what timing the module expects for the Hihat CC messages? Do I need to send them every 3ms? every 5ms? every 1ms?
I want to have the period as High as possible, sendig MIDI messages is the slowest part of the processing so I want to keep it to a minimmum.
Thanks!
Hi Zapp,
I guess you could keep the hihat cc to a minimum: every 3ms in semi-open state and only send the other cc messages when Hi hat is closed or open. I would use a boolean like openHihatState and have it « true » or « false » in open or closed states. Then only send an appropriate midi cc message if the state changes. You'll also have to send the midi note for the foot at the same time, on for closed and off for open. The splash Will be a quick on/off succession.
Hi.
CC only needed just before a note on. Eg, hit at open and slowly closing doesnt do anything until hihat closed, cc pedal zone, note on, vel 1.
From the manual.
MIDI parameyer selects between continuous controller 1 or 4. The CC value range can be set from 0 when open to 127 when closed (arrow down) or from 0 when closed to 127 when open (arrow up). Normally MIDI pedal data is only sent just before a note on, selections with a ! indicate that pedal changes are sent continuously.
Pedal down (chick or splash) transmits control change and note on, the corresponding note off is send when the pedal moves up again. A short time between down and up results in a foot splash, a longer time results in a foot chick because a quick sound decay sets in when the pedal comes down, and is removed when the pedal moves up again. So a short time in between keeps most of the sound, while a long time will quiet the sound down.
Quote from: kenjwright on December 05, 2023, 08:51:51 PMNot to discourage your Arduino project, but you may also like to take a look at this MIDI Solutions (https://midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm) unit that can be programmed to do these kinds of tasks.
Cheers!
Ken
Hi Ken, any idea on how to accomplish this using the Event Processor? Since 2box doesn't have a note for the splash how can I achieve for it to trigger a chick note 47 and a splash note 47 as well? I can't find a setting that uses time in the event processor.
Hi Edcito! I had a similar need for timing (convert note to aftertouch pinch/release) and reached out to MIDI Solutions support. Unfortunately (at least at that time) the response was that the Event Processor does not provide any type of pause/delay event.
Too bad though! Could easily(?) solve some of these kinds of issues.
Cheers!
Ken
Quote from: kenjwright on January 29, 2024, 07:17:08 PMHi Edcito! I had a similar need for timing (convert note to aftertouch pinch/release) and reached out to MIDI Solutions support. Unfortunately (at least at that time) the response was that the Event Processor does not provide any type of pause/delay event.
Too bad though! Could easily(?) solve some of these kinds of issues.
Cheers!
Ken
I bought it and now I can choke my 2box cymbals via midi in from a roland td-27, I spent 5 minutes max to program it to convert the roland aftertouch to the 2box choke note.
I have a spare roland FD-9 so I connected it directly to the 2box and will use it to trigger splashes using the same hihat notes. Also the TD-27 has a gate setting that helps filtering the note off event so you don't get always chick and splashes at the same time.
Nice! Opposite of what I was trying to do originally but eventually I'll likely need the same for my 2box. The EP is definitely a great little unit! The programming interface could use an update though!
Quote from: kenjwright on January 29, 2024, 08:30:31 PMNice! Opposite of what I was trying to do originally but eventually I'll likely need the same for my 2box. The EP is definitely a great little unit! The programming interface could use an update though!
What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to trigger the 2box with some other module, which one?
Quote from: edcito on January 31, 2024, 03:24:48 PMWhat are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to trigger the 2box with some other module, which one?
The opposite scenario I was referring to was a few years ago where I was attempting to bridge the gap between modern two zone Pintech PC cymbals which use an edge switch and a ddrum4. The ddrum4 uses aftertouch for chokes and the single zone Pintechs could be choked by squeezing/flexing the piezo housing but that required your full hand (fingers underneath, thumb on top) so not too good for fast chokes while playing but still choke-able nonetheless. For the two zone PC with the edge switch the first setup I tried was using a DDti (trigger I/O rebrand) which did not produce aftertouch but did sent a second note. What I was hoping for at the time was to use the Event Processor to remap the note-on to an aftertouch sequence that ramped up from 0 to 127, paused, then ramped back down to mimic the physical pinch/release. But the EP was not capable of producing that sequence. Currently I am using an eDrumin4 to satisfy that particular need as it can send the required aftertouch.
Cheers!
Ken
Well I just understood what the OP meant and I confirm it, when playing a full open hihat (CC4 Value 0) and then pressing the pedal slowly the full open sound keeps ringing until it reaches full closed position, it doesn't have to do with the pedal or splash note as I filtered the note off and the same happens.
Here you can hear it: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Apbbfhss1Va_hoQtIvsmjTloaDehQw?e=syYNl4
So the plot thickens, I just checked with my roland digital hihat and it does the same with the roland td-27 module! playing a full open sound it keeps ringing when pressing down the pedal slowly! so maybe it is the way a real hihat sounds? I haven't played acoustic in years so I don't know.
The only thing now I wish had been implemented in the 2Box OS is just the sending of a chick note instead of a splash note, the "foot" note B2 now sends the splash sound and not the chick, I wish it was the other way around....
drumit foot midi is note on when down (vel on how fast down), note off when up.
Short time in between (some modules might send note on and off very quickly) is foot splash, long time foot chick.
Similar to real hat, when the plates meet, decay starts. The hat doesnt "know" when it opens again, so foot down is same for chick and splash, until it opens again and the decay is taken away.
Yes I understand that but what I mean is that when I trigger the 2box midi note for foot (B2) through the midi in port ( no physical hihat connected to the hihat input) the 2box sounds the splash sound, whereas in every other module I've played the foot note triggers the chick sound. I wish the 2box did the same.
And also, what was your reasoning behind not allowing to change the midi notes for hihat/cymbals independently?
Hi edcito,
What is your master unit ? roland td ? Alesis?
in my limited knowledge what you are describing sounds like the hi hat note off hasn't been filtered out. It is not the splash note off that you have to filter out (the splash midi note from your master unit doesn't trigger anything in the drumit 5), it is the hi hat note off.