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1 millisecond of silence on some sounds ....

Started by edtc, December 30, 2010, 12:52:42 AM

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edtc

hi

I rendered some dsnd files with dsoundtool to see how sounds were layered ... at the beginning of some sounds , i noticed there was 1 millisecond of silence before sound starts ... is it a problem on the rendering with dsoundtool ? or maybe it was programmed like that... is it usefull ? what for? not sure its usefull or needed , if so all sounds would have this millisecond....

if anybody knows something about that... 

1 millisecond of silence is not a lot.... sure , but without this millisec , triggering will be 25% quicker ... (according to ggianni who mesured :
Kick - Latency 3.87 + 0.13 ms
Snare - Latency 3.63 + 0.13 ms
HiHat - Latency 3.70 + 0.18 ms
Cymbal - Latency 5.3+ 0.9 ms
in this nice topic http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,491.0.html#msg6369 )

Mixmaster5

I see your topics are really helping other people... in my opinion this millisencon drama is just non-sense and you wanted to proof that you help others. Let me summarize this you try to seem intelligent but wait?!?...0 replies!!! :( oooo  In my country we call this epic fail!!

edtc

#2
of course Shizzle/mixmaster5 ... lets have one millisecond of intelligence and stop polluting this forum...

edtc

#3
... this millisecond of silence is also increased when you pitch the sound down : @ -12 pitch , it's 2 milliseconds ....

  With real drums , the distance between your ears and the snare is about 50 cm : that makes 1.5 millisecond for the sound to "travel" to your ears . People may have different degrees of sensibility to this delay , but i m sure the less "delay " you have n the better it feels to play on the kit ... even more if you mix acoustic drums or hihat  with an Ekit or if you play at high tempos ...

  In the past i had an alesis D4 , and the latency of it bothered me a lot , I also experimented with triggering realtime with the excellent VST DRUMAGOG ... by tweaking my computer to make "IN to OUT" as fast as possible i could reach less than 3 millisecond ( 96khz , 32 samples of buffer on an RME soundcard + software latency), and that s where it began to be realistic  for my ears ...

As a computer based trigger set is somewhere complicated , i decided to move to the Drumit 5 , cause it s so better just to power the module , put the headphone on and play immediately when you want to ..:) 

Louis

Hi edtc,

Can you explain in more detail what you did? Did you create a completely new dsnd file with DSoundTool from some wave file(s) containing your own samples?
Or did you use DSoundTool to split a dsnd file that is shipped with the 2box module into one wave file per layer?


edtc

#5
hey Louis , glad you re back safe from the woods....

I did use your (excellent) tool to render a new factory sound called "Walnut 20 Kick 1" and then had a look on those wav files using Soundforge ...

guess i found it on 2 box download page ... I reopened it to check before posting ,and it shows a silence that is different for each Wav slice ... it s at the beginning of the sound , some have a millisecond or less , and some like " Walnut 20 Kick 1/14 " shows 3 milliseconds of silence before the real start of the attack  ....

  so i was wondering if it was a result of the wav conversion by dsoundtool , or careless trim job while  editing the slices when programmers made the *.dsnd file...

sorry for my english ;) and thanx for your work


Louis

Quote from: edtc on January 02, 2011, 05:12:26 PM

I did use your (excellent) tool to render a new factory sound called "Walnut 20 Kick 1" and then had a look on those wav files using Soundforge ...

guess i found it on 2 box download page ... I reopened it to check before posting ,and it shows a silence that is different for each Wav slice ... it s at the beginning of the sound , some have a millisecond or less , and some like " Walnut 20 Kick 1/14 " shows 3 milliseconds of silence before the real start of the attack  ....

  so i was wondering if it was a result of the wav conversion by dsoundtool , or careless trim job while  editing the slices when programmers made the *.dsnd file...



You are right, there is an initial silence on (at least some of the) samples in the walnut kick. I checked a few samples of the Big Kick and the Nasvall snare that are present in the 2box and there was no silence. So I think it is sloppy editing of the person that created the walnut kick.

And now I also checked the Gold 20 Kick, the first sample starts with 38 milliseconds of almost silence, while sample 2 and 3 do not contain any initial silence at all.

At least I can assure you that DSoundTool does not add any silence when splitting the file.

edtc

#7
thanx for answearing ....

38 millisecond is really huge !!! Even  a crappy computer with a crappy soundcard and a shitty midi trigger  would act better ...

Do you think it could be an easy way to repair those *.dsnd , by automatly removing
unwanted silence at the beginning of each layer ??  maybe with Dsoundtool ...



I just ask , because i dont know anything  about programing ... and having to split dsnd , trim each samples  separately and then reconvert them to dsnd back could be a real drama ...

Louis

Quote from: edtc on January 02, 2011, 07:52:18 PM

Do you think it could be an easy way to repair those *.dsnd , by automatly removing
unwanted silence at the beginning of each layer ??  maybe with Dsoundtool ...



I just ask , because i dont know anything  about programing ... and having to split dsnd , trim each samples  separately and then reconvert them to dsnd back could be a real drama ...

Sorry, I do not know if there is such a tool; perhaps SoundForge can do this. Unfortunately DSoundTool cannot do this currently. Of course if you donate I could think of adding such feature but I cannot promise a time plan since I am currently too busy.

edtc

#9
thanx Louis ... you ve allready done so much for 2BOX users ...

I guess the company could maybe fix this issue and give users a "cured" sample library ...

DDRUM or 2BOX conceptors spent a lot of time trying to reduce jitter and latency on their great modules , trying to gain maybe less than milliseconds ...

  As Louis even found a sample with a pre delay 38 millisecond , great improvements could be done easyly .