Big Mono kit - Test .dsnd files for sharing with all you lovely forum types...

[Slap the drummer]

Yes, I've never bothered to test properly but my impression has always been that samples sound
a bit rougher/noiser once played back from the module.

Also - going back to something earlier in the thread -

Baby (can I call you Baby?  )

When you said you did a second set with twice as many samples, what did you mean exactly?
Where did these extra samples come from?  Just curious.
Thanks

[Baby Samus]

I mean that the original .dsnd file was made with 16 samples per zone.  The newer files have 32 samples per zone so the .dsnd should be more dynamic and responsive.  I originally just used 16 samples as a test to see how it would sound and play and they turned out well - I then made the newer sounds with 32 samples - this way you can try both and see which you prefer.  Thats the aim anyway 

I guess more samples doesn't always mean it will trigger/sound better so more testing needs done, I just don't have enough high quality samples at my disposal!

[puttenvr]

I downloaded the Big Mono Kit (free version) and my version only has 16 samples
How can yours have 32 ?

[Baby Samus]

I downloaded the Big Mono Kit (free version) and my version only has 16 samples
How can yours have 32 ?

Because there are 16 left hand hit samples and 16 right hand hit samples for each drum.  I combined the samples to make 32.  The left hand and right hand hits are slightly different although similar in volume.

[puttenvr]

Yep, but are they assigned to 2 stereo channels?
Or does the 2Box know when I use my left or right hand ?  

Serious: they sound fantastic (thanx again) but what is the use of 32 samples ?

[Slap the drummer]

but what is the use of 32 samples ?

I always use L hand and R hand hits combined when they are available.
In theory this should help the file to sound that bit more natural - not really because of
one being L and one being R, but because (as Mr Samus says) there will be small
differences of dynamics etc - so if you use the random triggering setting it shd help create
the illusion of real drumming, with less machine gunning.

If they had sampled my L and R hands it probably wouldn't work because they are very
different!  I guess they use better drummers 

[Baby Samus]

Yep, but are they assigned to 2 stereo channels?
Or does the 2Box know when I use my left or right hand ?  

Serious: they sound fantastic (thanx again) but what is the use of 32 samples ?

Thanks Putt, but I don't understand what you mean - the Big Mono pack snare for instance has 16 seperate samples for the left hand hitting the drum - it also has 16 samples for hitting the drum with the right hand.  The samples have not been combined.

Thats 32 samples.  As the right hand and left hand samples are slightly different and if randomizing is on, 32 samples should in theory sound and trigger better than 16 samples as there are more layers of sensitivity.

[puttenvr]

I do understand that 32 dynamic layers trigger better than 16 but I don't understand how a single dsnd file can manage the difference between left and right. Or does it have only 16 layers with right and left assignment? I just don't get it. Sorry

[Baby Samus]

Lol hey man its cool I don't even understand myself sometimes!  

You are correct, the 2Box will not recognise whether a sample is played by your left and right hands, but this isn't what I was meaning.  What I mean is that because the left hand and right hand samples sets provided in the Big Mono pack (16 x RH + 16 x LH for each zone) sound different, I used both sets to make one .dsnd. So the .dsnd file has 32 samples in it instead of 16.  Even thought the volume of the RH and LH hits will be roughly the same, the samples differ slightly, which means you have more layers to randomize through, making it more detailed and responsive (in theory).

So the fact that they are denoted as RH and LH in the sample pack doesn't really apply here - they are seperate samples so it makes sense to use them for more layers rather than just using 16 RH samples in one .dsnd or 16 LH samples in one .dsnd.  I also tried combining LH and RH samples initially in Adobe Audition, but the sounds cancelled each other out a bit - I found more layers sounded better rather than combining samples but thats just me...

Hope that helps...

[puttenvr]

Yes. Thanks
How about a beer?

[UC]

And there you have it. Unofficial 2box Forum's first wedding :p

[rythm]

And there you have it. Unofficial 2box Forum's first wedding :p

LOL 

[Baby Samus]

Some people on here think I'm a girl?  Really?  Lol I do like beer though, then again who doesn't?

[Slap the drummer]

I mean that the original .dsnd file was made with 16 samples per zone.  The newer files have 32 samples per zone so the .dsnd should be more dynamic and responsive.  I originally just used 16 samples as a test to see how it would sound and play and they turned out well - I then made the newer sounds with 32 samples - this way you can try both and see which you prefer.

Ok, thanks man!
I still think it wd be interesting to know roughly what the best number of samples is.
Did you notice/feel any difference between the 16 set and the 32?

As an extra thought -
The range of samples from 2box tends to be something like -30db to 0db.
Assume the Big Mono is roughly the same, so that's say 0.5db to 1db difference between the different layers.
With random sampling on, if the 2box is picking from (say) the 2 sample layers above and the 2 layers below,
then there might be as much as a 2db variation.

Surely that 2db variation would stick out like a sore thumb, no?

Perhaps somebody who actually knows what they are talking about could give some accurate figures, including what
kind of range of velocity variation will avoid machine gunning but at the same time not sound inconsistent.

[Baby Samus]

Ok, thanks man!
I still think it wd be interesting to know roughly what the best number of samples is.
Did you notice/feel any difference between the 16 set and the 32?

Surely that 2db variation would stick out like a sore thumb, no?

Perhaps somebody who actually knows what they are talking about could give some accurate figures, including what
kind of range of velocity variation will avoid machine gunning but at the same time not sound inconsistent.

Well that sounds like a good idea in practice but there is no 'best number' of samples.  That is entirely up to what an individual prefers and will be different in every case - one of us will prefer 16 layers, and others will prefer 32.  Some sounds may work better in a given context with less layers than more.  What matters the most to me are things like:

'does it sound good?'
'are the dynamics good enough that it sounds natural to my ear when I play?'
'does my ear notice the difference between 16 and 32 layers, or do I prefer more or less layers and how does that feel dynamically?'
'Do I enjoy playing this sound/kit?'

Everyone has a different perception of how something sounds and what they enjoy, so the only expert can be you.  For instance someone could measure lag or volume change electronically on that Big Mono patch or the 2Box itself, and they may well tell me that those figures mean there is a problem of lag or volume change.  But if I cannot hear or feel the 'problem/s' the other person has measured, then it is of no consequence to me.  I will still think it sounds good to my ear.  If it does not sound good to someone else they can go and change it/fix it!  It may be that the 'problem' the measurement is indicating is something my ear likes and his simply does not.

We shouldn't worry so much about measurements, trust your own instincts in whether something sounds good or not - you don't tell other people what bands or songs to like so why should someone tell you your sound is broken when to you it sounds really good?