Sounds from the module

[Pret]

Hey all
Need you opinion/help on sounds quality as heard from my module
I keep hearing wonderful sounds on inet demos and youtube even the stock kits of the module.
After finally assembled my set, getting acquainted with the module file system and be able to change/build my kits from stock sounds or downloaded once, I'm still not 100% satisfied by the sounds I hear relatively to the amazing once I hear in various demos
I'm talking particular about toms, the rest sound really good and is up to my expectations.

I find if very difficult to describe in words the audio details I'm not satisfied from, so I just recorded few examples for you to be able to hear and judge yourself.

The first one are toms from module's stock kit DrumIt_Live_Kit.
The recording starts with each tom played by its button four times, then hitting the toms by stick four times. The toms are old Alesis rubber pads with central sensor, hence noticeable hot-spotting is heard.
But in general, the button sounds have some roar after the first engagement and to me it appears not something that I would expect...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8h695dhiiixuchx/Toms_DrumIt_Live_Kit.mp3?dl=0

The next file is toms recording of eNERD RB1K-1Dry kit that I downloaded and installed. I liked very much his sounds as in demo for this kit:
http://endre-enerd.com/index.php/tech-info/sounds - the first, dry sounds demo
But as you can hear in my recording, the actual sounds as fetched from my module sound far from that cleanness and clarity from these from his demo clip. Also, the definite roar is still there....
The format is same as above, 4 button engagements for each tom, then same by stick...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/73lon3ib11hjdiv/Toms_eNERD_Dry1.mp3?dl=0

That roar (perhaps there is better English term to describe that) bothers me, I usually like dry sounds
All the kits and sounds in my module feature that weird effect, I suspect perhaps there is some common setting I'm not aware of that causes that...

If you'll be willing to hear tom sounds from other stock kits to have better judgement - let me know I'll record them as well

Thanks in advance

[welshsteve]

It doesn't sound like you're playing the same sound. The 1st four hits sound like tom 1 whereas the second 4 sound like tom 2.
Same on the enerd kit.

[welshsteve]

But apart from that, they sound normal. They sound on maximum velocity though, but I'm familiar with these sounds and they sound as I'd expect.
But if the button is playing a different sound to the Triggered sound on the same channel, I can't explain that.

[Pret]

Yes indeed, eachtom is engaged 4 times consequently, i.e. 4 times Tom 1, 4 times Tom 2 and 4 times Tom 3.
The pads produce similar sounds as by buttons but with pronounced hot- spotting though

So the first kit you hear the sounds you would expect ?
What about eNerd's ? My recorded sounds are heard to my ears more noisier and less dry then on his video...the difference is very noticeable
Don't you think so ?

[welshsteve]

So each tom 4 times played. How many times with the button vs played via pad?

[welshsteve]

I have listened to it again and understood what you mean. Button, tom 1 - 3 four times, then again played 1 - 4 four times.

Apart from the gain (sounds too high on first tom, not high enough on 2nd and 3rd) I'd say the sounds are exactly right.

[Pret]

Ok, lets disregard the played sounds (sticks) and only consider the sounds triggered by buttons

For eNerd dry kit, do you hear the recorded tone the same as you hear on his demo video ? (Link to his web page with 1Dry kit is in my original posting)
Because I hear them differently, the recorded being noisy and much less dry

[welshsteve]

Well the recording was done in a studio and probably went through a bit of post production, compression eq etc, what the module had is the raw sound. The demos of the guy playing didn't specify which kit, but I would have to assume it was the dry kit which was then on mix down put through like I said, compression and eq. You best contact Endre himself to verify that. So in answer to your question, I can tell it's the same kit being triggered but minus the post production.

[welshsteve]

Oh, one more thing you need to realise with the recording, is that there are live mics to pick up cymbals. But in that there will be bleed from the toms, because he's using mylar head. Now they don't make so much of a note but will give off a transient "attack" which will be picked up by the cymbal mics but will blend in with the sampled sound. This will affect the total mix.

This is partly why I prefer mylar heads to mesh heads live. Endre will verify this himself.

[Pret]

Oh ... I see
I have no any experiences with acoustic drums unfortunately neither with sound production so did not realize certain factors until you explained now.
But I'm wondering why to offer raw samples as ready- to- use kit rather then to offer a final sounds that match the quality shown in demo..
If the user likes the sounds heard in demo, he will be willing to download the sounds or kit ready to use to expect exactly the same sounds from his module...rather then raw material that needs to be further processed in order to get the quality sounds to match the demo..
Still learning :-)

I wrote to him

[Jman]

One thing that makes a big difference when playing back dsnds built for the 2Box module is whether you are just routing the sound output through the headphone or Master Outs with module EQ engaged. Routing the sound output of the Drumit Five by individual Direct Outs with no module EQ is very different and much better IMO. I have seen quite a few threads by people claiming the sounds they built for the module sound different, but I never noticed that myself because I have always routed dry individual outs to my mixer when playing and listening to the 2Box. You might ask eNerd, but I would expect that when he recorded his demos he was routing the drums via individual (dry) outputs to his recording consul and that would be different from the Master Outs or Headphone Out of the module with the module EQ affecting the sound.

[welshsteve]

Oh ... I see
I have no any experiences with acoustic drums unfortunately neither with sound production so did not realize certain factors until you explained now.
But I'm wondering why to offer raw samples as ready- to- use kit rather then to offer a final sounds that match the quality shown in demo..
If the user likes the sounds heard in demo, he will be willing to download the sounds or kit ready to use to expect exactly the same sounds from his module...rather then raw material that needs to be further processed in order to get the quality sounds to match the demo..
Still learning :-)


I wrote to him

I wouldn't complain about the sound not matching exactly to the recorded version, that was kinda the point endre made them. He explains that a lot of the sounds on the 2box kit are so processed with verb and what not that any engineer wouldn't want to use them because you can only add more processing, not take it away. He did however offer 5 kits with varying degrees of processing (just ambience) You have downloaded the DRY kit. I would suggest any one of the kits with room ambience, they're really nice with a long tail at the end of the sample for you to shorten at to your listening taste.

If you're not into post-processing, and you have just the 4gig card, I would find sounds you like first before downloading them on to the module. You might be thinking, "But wait, I can't hear the sounds unless I have them downloaded on the module, which takes time)

Here's how I do it. (Not anymore since the 32gig mod)

All you do is have a .dkit file on your computer and the drumit editor open. When it opens it will say "cannot open kit bank" or something. Go to file/open Kit Bank and open the .dkit file wherever you have saved it. It will most likely say, "missing files" but that doesn't matter.

Using the navigator in kit editor, drag and drop .dsdn sounds into any of the drum channels where you can preview. From there, make a note of which sounds you like in a notepad or something. You can preview velocity by holding down "click" and moving the cursor up and down, down will show you low velocity, higher, max velocity and everything in between.

Once you have a list of sounds you like, upload them onto the module the normal way via usb.

You have just 4 gigabytes to play with, which is enough to have a lot of sounds, but not enough to have them all. So I would probably delete the ones you don't like in favour of the ones you do. It will take time but it's quicker than having to upload to the module, try it on a kit, realise you don't like, then delete next time the module is connected. You have to remember their sample names!

This should make the process of which sounds you like and which sound you don't like a lot quicker and with a result you like.

[Pret]

One thing that makes a big difference when playing back dsnds built for the 2Box module is whether you are just routing the sound output through the headphone or Master Outs with module EQ engaged. Routing the sound output of the Drumit Five by individual Direct Outs with no module EQ is very different and much better IMO. I have seen quite a few threads by people claiming the sounds they built for the module sound different, but I never noticed that myself because I have always routed dry individual outs to my mixer when playing and listening to the 2Box. You might ask eNerd, but I would expect that when he recorded his demos he was routing the drums via individual (dry) outputs to his recording consul and that would be different from the Master Outs or Headphone Out of the module with the module EQ affecting the sound.

Yes following your advise I spent some time reading the manual the sections that deal with outputs and channels configurations. For Studio-like setup I do not have enough inputs in my mixer consul to handle all separate drum outputs, will need to upgrade one should I decide to take that approach.

I compared sounds listening from Editor on the PC then the same sounds triggered by the module buttons... they indeed sounded similar to my ears..
Wondering how much difference would be heard when making Studio setup and mixing separate direct outputs by external consul...

BTW, the Studio configuration example in the manual suggests two outputs (OUT 5 and 6) for toms, another two for cymbals and split headphone output for HH..
Why two for each kind of these ?

[Jman]

BTW, the Studio configuration example in the manual suggests two outputs (OUT 5 and 6) for toms, another two for cymbals and split headphone output for HH..
Why two for each kind of these ?

Two outputs means you can have L/R pan which is nice for panning the toms (or cymbals) to mirror reality. In the module I pan each tom from left to right, example tom 1 Left 5, tom 2 left 2. tom 3 right 2, tom 4 right 5. So when you play a roll around the toms the sound follows the pan (that would be from the drummer's perspective). So if your toms are panned in the module and you send a pair of outs to the mixer you can pan the mixer channels hard left and hard right and your module pan is heard in the mixer that way.

[Pret]

Oh understood
So each OUT is connected by TRS cable to a stereo input of the mixer consul, right ?