Snare Rim triggering with Intrigg

[Pret]

Yesterday had the chance to assemble the snare with newly bought Intrigg.
Used Maple 13" snare.
Hooked to DrumIt 5, in general works fine except of rim triggering.
Hitting the rim there is distinctive sound of head as well, kind of crosstalk from the head.
The opposite crosstalk was also present until used Remo Muffle ring underneath the head. The then crosstalk from the rim gone, but once hitting rim only still have snare head sound mixed up.
Played with module setting, cannot figure anything that would influence that.
Also, I use module buttons to hear the ideal sound and then compare with actual drum hit to make sure it is close enough in sound signature...
The module does not offer rim button on snare (or toms) so this is not an option to make sure how the rim should sound..

Any help here ?
I know the rim sensor in Intrigg is glued just on the trigger mount. Is that good enough to avoid crosstalk but cleanly separate the sounds ?
Tried crossstick hits to dampen the head just by the hand...still the same result...

Thanks in advance

[welshsteve]

Okay first up, you can hear the rim sounds on channels which have it (Snare, toms) by pressing "more" first then the channel which you want to hear the rim sound.

As for getting total separation of rim and pad trigger setting, this is a tough one with this module, maybe someone else can chime in with their suggested settings. Do you wish to use the rim on the snare for a rimshot or rim clicks? It's hard to have both unless you have a sound assigned to the rim which up until a certain velocity setting is rim click (say up to midi velocity 80) and after rimshot.

But generally, try different cross talk on the snare pad. Start with low and then work up if you need more. Now the problem with this is you might find playing snare and tom 1 simultaneously will result in only tom being played if you are playing the snare at a lowish velocity, not good right?

It's notable to have your gain and threshold settings set right first, if you haven't, here's a guide.

Snare pad, in Unit-tigger page, set gain so that hardest hit (generally your back beat velocity) registers a -3 db in the display. That way a slighter harder than that hit will take it to 0db. Now threshold, your lightest tap (say what you would do if you're ghosting in a pattern) triggers, but below that, it doesn't.

Try with cross talk off and see if this gives you the desired effect.

Bear in mind, when you hit the rim only on an acoustic snare, you'll hear the head too so try not to get too fixated with "seeing" it trigger when in the real world, you'd hear it too.

Another factor is the velocity curve, normal is fine but I find live I have gone to "neg 1" setting and the reverse and also "Pos 1" depending on the situation I was in (what trigger I was using and whether is was comfortable with how it was triggering)

Another option to try (make sure you have the latest firmware 1.30 or later) In it, there's a trigger option called XPAD and XRIM specifically written to combat the better separation for Rim/Head triggering. But I haven't had much experience with this as I am pretty happy with the way the kit plays.

All in all, you can see there are many variables!

Good luck!!

[DeraldPrice]

I ultimately had to remove the rim trigger from the Intrigg and attach it directly to my snare to clear up all crosstalk issues. This made it much easier to dial in the snare.

I also had to remove my rim protector so I could turn down the gain on the rim sensor.

[Pret]

Thanks
First of all, wasn't aware that Rim settings are available under the More option...thanks for the heads up
Now, doing that, pressing Snare button to check the rim sound (in rim mode)...well...it indeed produces sort of mixture of snare and rim hit...not the clear rim click as I enjoy to hear in blues/ballad kind of songs...
If this is the rim sound available - not worth the efforts in my eyes...

I'm interested in rim click, not a rim shot.
Is there any kit that would produce such clean rim click (kind of probably wooden stick on wooden rim ?) ?

[StudioG4]

I think the term you are refering to is "cross stick" ?

[welshsteve]

Americans often call it "rim clicks" I however have always used the term (unless on this forum for the sake of understanding) side stick.

In any case, you can detach the encoded rim sound from a snare easy and assign a cross stick sound. Just press more, then snare to call up the sound, then find a cross stick sound you'd like. (or any sound you choose) and hey presto!

[edtc]

Thanks
First of all, wasn't aware that Rim settings are available under the More option...thanks for the heads up
Now, doing that, pressing Snare button to check the rim sound (in rim mode)...well...it indeed produces sort of mixture of snare and rim hit...not the clear rim click as I enjoy to hear in blues/ballad kind of songs...
If this is the rim sound available - not worth the efforts in my eyes...

I'm interested in rim click, not a rim shot.
Is there any kit that would produce such clean rim click (kind of probably wooden stick on wooden rim ?) ?

Hello Pret ...

I know that a forum is a place where people ask questions and other share knowledge , but , i m quite sure 50% of the questions you post here could be answered by yourself if :

- you take time to read the manual
- by simply looking on your module , turning the encoders and try the sounds . Trial & errors is the key to undrestanding . Some say help yourself ...

It s just my opinion , and you can post as much as you want ...

have a nice day .

[Pret]

Yes that is always correct
I did read the manual even printed it out, sometimes questions arose because cannot figure from the manual or probably did not fully understand the implications.
Of course, things can be missed even though existing in the manual
In many cases there is just no substitution to common wisdom of the community and experience :-)

But I admit, in the case of rim, indeed I missed the point in the manual of using Set button to fetch the reference sound, my bad...
However another fellow user mentioned in this thread that even in acoustic snare rim sound often has snare head sound mixed up. This input is important to me to understand because I have never had the chance to play acoustic drums, my drumming journey has begun with electronic. That helped me to gain better understanding of the expectations
This kind of user experience cannot be read in the manual of realized just from guesswork with module controls...this is the great asset of this community

I appreciate every kind kind of input from fellow users here and trying to learn

:-)

[Darthsleader]

Hi guys.

I'm using Jobeky dual-zone drums and have done extensive experimentation and modification to get the head/rim separation to work well (close to flawless.)

First of all, the Jobeky trigger system has the head and rim triggers both mounted to the same bracket attached via a lug screw. Out of the box, I couldn't get any satisfactory separation at all, and this is after TONS of trigger settings experimentation. The two triggers are both attached to the same metal piece... how can the module differentiate?!?

I tried many different things and won't bore you with them... but what worked really well is, I purchased rim triggers from Pintech. These are a piezo with a "finger" of metal soldered on with a hole in it, which you attach under a lug screw on the player's side of the drum. The piezo has double sided tape as well to attach to the shell. This GREATLY improved the separation between head and rim.

Also, I removed the thick rubber rim silencer and replaced it with clear vinyl tubing from the hardware store. It is virtually invisible and since it doesn't dampen the rim hits nearly as much, it allowed me to greatly reduce the rim trigger gain.

To test this, I have created a kit where the heads all trigger regular drum sounds, but the rims are all finger cymbals. It's very easy to hear any crosstalk on this kit.

I have the toms' crosstalk all set to medium and the snare set to low. The snare does trigger the head on loud rim hits, but it doesn't really matter to me... this is reduced when I set crosstalk to Medium on snare, but then lots of my ghost notes and roll strokes get lost, so it's a trade-off.

Jer