Latency Live!

[AndyMo]

I agree Steve. If I could solve the hihat issues (going to try real hihat at a gig tomorrow) and latency - I would be much happier. Like you, I get other drummers (acoustic and electronic) comment on the sound. I played Roland for 10 years prior to the move to 2Box.

If I could also get a snare that behaves more like a real snare (e.g., like the TD50), that would seal it for me. I would not be looking at other options.

Cheers,
Andy

PS I tried a TD50 at the weekend and playability was superb.

[AndyMo]

Hi Steve,

At a gig last night, I used acoustic hi hats. Although not particularly scientific, I did not notice any significant latency issues. My sizeable Yamaha powered PA speaker was right next to the kit and right next to my speaker was the bass players amp.

I was surprised how well it worked. The gig was in a small/medium sized bar and the hi hat and drums blended well.

Playability with real hi hat was of course much improved on the rubber pads.

I am wondering about trying a ride (and maybe crash) too. Something darker and not ear-spitting volume-wise might work well. This isn't related to latency - just playability (for example, last night, one of the o-rings slipped off part of the cymbal edge which rendered the ride pretty useless until I could refit the o-ring in the break).

Cheers,
Andy

[Coda]

Next is the snare. Then toms. Finally kick. Et voila... full acoustic kit 

[AndyMo]

No - I'm resisting that route : ) 

The flexibility, range of sounds (I used some new samples last night) and, not least for many gigs I play, volume control is key for me.

I'm considering other cymbal options - including some of the Zildjian low volume range with Jman triggers for example.

I might stick with real hi hats though, unless other options get much closer to the real thing.

[Coda]

I understand. I've just ordered the Zildjian Gen16 (cheapest kit) so I can get playable hats...

[AndyMo]

It'll be great to hear how you get on with the Gen16s. The hi hats seem to play very well and come across well in demos, etc.

[Coda]

Yeah I'm more worried about (re)learning how to play real hats now. It's gonna be an uphill battle for sure.

[AndyMo]

I bet you will be surprised how quickly you adapt. I played an ekit for about 10 years and then joined an acoustic combo where I use a really small set up, incl real hats. It was great and made me realise how expressive real hats are compared with the e-hats I played. That said, I tried a TD50 at the weekend and the hats were incredible. 

[edtc]

I was sure you gonna enjoy the mix real hihat/drumit5 ...

I use real hats since day one , and for a year a L80 hh + ride ... 

Cant stand E-hats , even on the best models ... i m sure it will take long time until a company releases something half as expressive as the real thing .. and hihat is 90% of a beat ...

[StudioG4]

Do the Gen16 hats offer an 808 and/or 909 type hihat or are they just natural cymbal sounds?
Thanks.
Tony G

[welshsteve]

UPDATE!

Well, I played tonight and the bassist wasn't on the gig, so I unmuted bass tracks that I programmed (as I expected some gigs would be without a bassist sometimes) And the kit played find, no notacable latency issues at all. So I conclude it's BASS frequencies, most specifically bassists that are mentally loud that don't need to be because the kit doesn't have its own backline and stage monitoring is down to a single 12" wedge monitor.

Although this still sucks because it should be fine to play around high backline amplifcation, it seems I have whittled it down.

I have a three of gigs next weekend without a bassist again, so I'll see over the three gig I have no latency at all and if on Monday I report that I have not, I'll can say that bass guitar amplification is the main influencing factor.

[Coda]

Good to know. And the permanent solution is so simple: fire the bassist

[Coda]

Do the Gen16 hats offer an 808 and/or 909 type hihat or are they just natural cymbal sounds?

They are not triggers, they are reduced-volume real cymbals with tiny mics. You still get a sound processing module to alter the sounds but to what extent is possible, I am not sure.

[AndyMo]

Steve - your experience chimes with mine. The times I have noticed it, I have been sitting right next to a sizeable bass amp and drum monitor. At the gig last week, my speaker was raised a little and not cranked up quite so much as the bassist only had one speaker cab (rather than his stack of two cabs). The band volume on stage and the lower frequencies were reduced - and I didn't have any latency issues. I hope the rest of your gigs went well!

[AndyMo]

I played at an outside gig Saturday night and experienced some serious latency - it was a though I had a pretty delayed echo on the snare. It was intermittent but seemed to get worse as the evening wore on. Eventually the snare all but stopped working. I switched the cable to my BT1 and used that to get me through the last two tracks. I'm not sure if this is a live latency issue or perhaps a failing trigger. I used a brand new cable on the snare and ride. One variable is my large monitor was slightly behind me and fairly close to the snare.

Anyway, I will look into it further. I bought some Triggit triggers - used one on a tom with a failed internal trigger and it seemed to work well. I will try one on the snare channel.

It's such a pain. I have some great sounds but triggering live seems to be an issue.