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Vote for increasing the number of trigger channels and allowing triggering them via MIDI IN

Yes!
5 (83.3%)
No
1 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Author Topic: MIDI In Trigger  (Read 1359 times)

mistery

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MIDI In Trigger
« on: November 30, 2016, 08:32:45 AM »
I find it would be extremely convenient to have triggering of the instruments via MIDI In port. This would allow chaining multiple modules and handling more pads/triggers than can fit on one module.

Edit: What I mean here is, basically, increasing the number of trigger channels (from 15) to a higher value while allowing triggering them via MIDI IN.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 01:46:31 PM by mistery »

welshsteve

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2016, 09:05:17 PM »
I am confused as to what you would like, you can trigger the voices via midi. And if you have two modules, you have twice the number of trigger inputs.

mistery

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2016, 11:00:47 AM »
I am confused as to what you would like, you can trigger the voices via midi. And if you have two modules, you have twice the number of trigger inputs.

OK, that's where my confusion lies, actually. I've only read about the module, so please have some understanding.  :-[

While I'm aware that there is a MIDI In on DrumIt5, I've also read that the drum voices can not be triggered through it. Unfortunately, I do not have the exact reference. This was my impression after reading the threads (probably on this forum).
Edit: here are the relevant threads:
- http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1107.0
- http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=2293.0
- http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=2534.0 (This topic nails it.)

If that is not the case, please correct me! Because this is almost a make or break feature of the module for me.

My scenario would be to keep an older module (TD-3) and use it as the midi trigger for extra stuff (additional toms, cymbals, percussion). All the sounds would/should still come from the DrumIt module. The two would be linked via a MIDI cable (TD3 to DrumIt).
Could you give a definite Yes or No answer to a question if this is possible? :)

A support for 3rd party pads (Roland 3-zone rides and hi-hat controllers, for example) would be my next suggestion. Fortunately, some skilled and enthusiastic people out there have already made the necessary tools to support these.

Edit: After re-reading the related MIDI IN and expansion threads, I could perhaps clarify my request to state that the support for triggering *additional* drum sounds via MIDI would be really nice to have. This implies that all the pad inputs on the module itself are already usef for the drum set. The additional pads would be connected to a 2nd module and would trigger additional elements, effectively expanding the kit.

Technically, I guess this would mean increasing the number of trigger channels from 15 to a higher value.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 01:28:05 PM by mistery »

mistery

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2016, 01:35:13 PM »
OK, based on the many threads I read today, what I meant is definitely not possible.
Hence, I've reworded the suggestion title.
The issue seems to be the number of trigger channels.

While triggering of the sounds via MIDI works, it is limited to 15 channels. Meaning that, if one already has pads attached, no extra instruments can be added, either physically (not counting splitter cables) or through MIDI IN from another source (drum module, multi-pad, keyboard, whatever).

geo

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2016, 06:52:05 PM »
Hi mistery,

You are correct that it is not possible, but your concepts are not quite right. The MIDI channels is not where the limit lies - it is the samples available in the brain for triggering.

- MIDI channels (1-16) are filters for MIDI notes. They do not directly trigger/store samples.
- MIDI notes are transmitted on a channel. MIDI notes can trigger a sample, but again don't store them.
- In the brain, individual samples are assigned a MIDI note/channel combination.
- There are a fixed number of instrument channels in the brain (10), each of which can be assigned 1 or 2 samples (for the most part). THIS is the limit that's affecting you.

You can't increase the instrument channels (nor can you trigger samples that aren't assigned to one), but MIDI channels are entirely different concept.

mistery

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2016, 09:51:32 AM »
Thanks, @geo. I really do have an issue explaining this. :) It's mostly about finding the right term that everyone would understand.
In the last posts I used the term "trigger channel", which I found in the manual. You call them "instrument channels" here and yes, this is what I meant. Both terms represent the same thing.

So, besides having a larger number of these trigger channels, I also want to be able to trigger them by another module which would be connected to the one producing the sounds. Normally, I guess, this is done via MIDI.
Hope that clarifies it.

The interesting bit is - why that limitation? What is causing it? It would make sense if only 5 instruments can be playing at the same time, or something like that. But I don't get this. Is there some "fast memory" where the kit samples are loaded and having more is just not possible?

 :animal:

StudioG4

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2016, 05:07:09 PM »
I think this may clarify. Unlike, say an Alesis D4 which has a huge number of short sounds, the 2box processing capability is designed for the finite number of trigger inputs (midi note assignments). To achieve what you are trying to accomplish would mean an enormous increase in that processing power/function (to be able to simultaneously process and play many more sounds assigned to midi notes/channels). The sample sizes in the 2box unit are so much more elaborate than in the basic Alesis D4 and other modules that are capable of doing what you seek. It is possible with some modules but the sacrifice in sound quality is something you'll have to deal with.
Hope this helps.

mistery

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2016, 11:05:15 AM »
That indeed does explain just a tad more.
I tend to look at this issue from a different perspective, I think. We only have four lims (well, most of us anyway) so that is a physical limitation. We can only trigger a maximum of four sounds at any one time.
Yes, the instruments will continue to produce a sound even after they've been hit, so that's a second parameter. The number of parallel-sounding channels, that is.

However, the number of instruments available *should not* be an issue. This, for example, is a clear advantage of acoustic drums. For example, you buy another cymbal and that's it. You have another instrument at your disposal. With electric (at least in this case), not so. I find that to be a limitation.

The technology should not be the limitation. It's the 21st century. Our phones are already heaps more powerful than a machine that led people to the Moon. Adding a few more instrument channels (or whatever) should not be a limiting factor.
And that's the whole point of my "request" here. Or at least a wish.

In any case, new products coming to market in 2017. Let's wait and see who solves this first. I'm pretty certain it will happen. Just a matter of time.

StudioG4

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2016, 04:52:46 PM »
"However, the number of instruments available *should not* be an issue. This, for example, is a clear advantage of acoustic drums. For example, you buy another cymbal and that's it. You have another instrument at your disposal. With electric (at least in this case), not so. I find that to be a limitation.

The technology should not be the limitation. It's the 21st century. Our phones are already heaps more powerful than a machine that led people to the Moon. Adding a few more instrument channels (or whatever) should not be a limiting factor.
And that's the whole point of my "request" here. Or at least a wish."

Just as with acoustics as you state, you could simply purchase another module and trigger via midi. I know it's not what your intent is but 'technology' does have a price tag. Just look at where Roland has gone pricewise. I think the economic reality of the 2box makers is to produce a superior product that can still be in the realm of affordability to the masses. As technology progresses (just look at the evolution of computer memory and storage capability/price) it is coming but may take some time.


mistery

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 10:39:33 AM »
Just as with acoustics as you state, you could simply purchase another module and trigger via midi.

Yes, I figure that is still the only available option at the moment. And it is also not that bad.
Stacking of two modules from two different generations could be used so that the roles swap (primary/secondary) when the older one becomes truly obsolete and a viable alternative shows up.

mikeymeitbual

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2016, 11:32:59 AM »
I mentioned this on another thread - Alesis Triggerio or ddrum ddti will run you about $150 and you get 10 trigger inputs + variable hi-hat input. I'm not sure if it works with the "Real Hat" setups, I should give that a try - I have the TriggerIO, I'll have to give it a whirl.

edtc

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2016, 12:36:10 PM »
I mentioned this on another thread - Alesis Triggerio or ddrum ddti will run you about $150 and you get 10 trigger inputs + variable hi-hat input. I'm not sure if it works with the "Real Hat" setups, I should give that a try - I have the TriggerIO, I'll have to give it a whirl.

TriggerIO is quite ok , when you use it in USB mode with a computer . I made some tests with the MIDI out plugged into mu 2BOX module , and the latency is awfull ... Around 10 milliseconds more than if you plug the pad directly into the module ... + the latency from module it makes 12 or 13 ms total

For example my old OCTAPAD 1 , this latency is only 3ms +2ms = 5 ms : just 1ms more than if plugged in the module ...

StudioG4

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Re: MIDI In Trigger
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2016, 11:17:06 PM »
This still won't give you any more channels than the drumit 5 is capable of producing though.