Kick Drum Setup...

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ps i also messed around now, with everything. it seems that gain 10 and thresh -15 with the mesh head really loose, almost unscrewed, works better. i tried the ball beater but it wasnt better, a more solid beater like the pearl beater seems to be better. now it double triggers only if i play too hard . but i dont like the loose mesh. but i cant complain...still it need fine tuning, i need to spend hours in this, but thought id ask for some settings, u guys made that worked well for you. it could save me time. please mention also what beater you use and how tight you have the mesh. thanx to all

[Slap the drummer]

Others may disagree but I think if you've got to set the mesh loose like that then
something is wrong.

Put it like this - what's the point of a lovely big mesh head if you have to slacken
it off to the point of being unresponsive?  You might as well be using something
cheap and cheerful like a roland KD85 which won't give you this problem.

I would do this -

a) is this a Mk1 to Mk2 conversion?  Who did it?  I feel certain that the key here
is to get pressure applied to the perimeter of the mesh to damp it down.  You need
the foam ring specifically for the Mk2 - or else you need to do what dbl says in an
earlier post (below) and use some extra insulation of your own.  I suspect that the
reason some people find the Mk2 better is because the Mk1 tended to provide lighter
but all over damping rather than pushing it tight at the perimeter.

Sort this out and then tighten your head up so that its nice and bouncy (not all the
way tight).

b) I don't think you should have to use a negative curve.  Use normal.  And don't set
the threshold too high.

c) Now experiment with single strokes.  Play a normal single beat.  Don't play like if
you were really playing.  The idea is to find out - is it possible for you to get a single
beat out of the drum?

d) Concentrate on pulling the beater back fast off the head after the hit.

e) Now do the opposite.  Try and push the beater firm against the head and hold it there.

f) Doing the above, try your different beaters and experiment a bit with position - off centre
and so on.  Personally I think its interesting to set the curve to Max2.  This will really let
you hear what is going on.  Are you having lessons at the moment?  Get your teacher
to see if he can get a single beat out of it.

g) The idea is to establish can you actually get a single beat out without any extra triggering.

This is stage one - report back and let us know how you get on.


I would at the same time consider trying a roland head if you have the funds.  A spare head is
no bad thing in the long run and you might find you like it better anyway.

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amazing post!!!!
i will try what you say over the weekend and post all the results here

some fast points.
i do not like max2 or max 1 because there are no dynamics in it. whether you play soft or hard, it wqill always come out hard...
secondly, i have mk2 kick pad. it was mk1 and the distributor made it into a mk2. they didnt have a clue as they did not remove the back plate and they still had the sensor in the middle. all they did was cut the cables of the light. so i fixed everything correctly.

ps. when the mesh is loose, i cant say it is unresponsive. it is still bouncy.and i can easily play all kinds of beats in it.i have loosen it to the point the aluminum clamps of the kick head dont start moving around. when i had it tightened all the way up, the beater would be much more bouncy of course, but also noiser and for sure, more bouncy than i would like. i have to run now, but tomorrow i will do more tests and post a more informative post. thanx very much

[Slap the drummer]

Hi BA - I forgot to mention - there is a difference between trigger pad type "Kick1" and "Kick2",
so try them both.

Yeh, I know you wdn't want to use Max normally, but here it can help you hear what is really
going on because the slightest extra trigger and it will be audible.
Do it just for me 

Remember you are not trying to fix it here, just establish how bad the problem is.

cheers

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yes i understand what you mean mate. you have a valid point here. i will test everything and report back
ps. i hate kick 2 because it makes me feel i do not hit the pedal on time. but triggerwise it is better. with kick 2 the double triggering was minimised to one third, i would say. pitty it is not my cup of tea

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Hi BA - I forgot to mention - there is a difference between trigger pad type "Kick1" and "Kick2",
so try them both.

Yeh, I know you wdn't want to use Max normally, but here it can help you hear what is really
going on because the slightest extra trigger and it will be audible.
Do it just for me 

Remember you are not trying to fix it here, just establish how bad the problem is.

cheers

well in order not to trigger a double sound, i have to make clean kick moves. i mean i just have to press the pedal and release my foot from it real fast. only this way it wont rigger any double trigger sound. and with mesh being loose. the slightest tight of the mesh makes it double trigger. all my tests were in max 2 curve. if i play like i normally do, only if i play slow tunes it wont double trigger. if i play double pedal there is always double trigger. i wonder if i should put the back cover back up and cut a piece of the foam to put it where the beaters hit the mesh...

for slight or no double triggering i have to have gain in 10, thresh in -12 and neg2 in curve. and the head being extremely loose. but i dont think this is the way to go....

[Slap the drummer]

When I tested mine like this I would get - not so much a "double trigger" as a press roll (a prolonged
buzz), even when I pulled the pedal right back.  In other words, the mesh head was actually vibrating
after the hit, enough to register as a trigger.

From this it seemed clear to me that when I went back to normal curve, raising the threshold, slacking
off the tension etc, these were just covering up the problem rather than curing it - and stray double
triggers kept poking through.

So I concluded that since I literally couldn't get a clean hit off the head without going to extreme
measures, then it must be faulty and I sent it back.

Would you say yours was as bad as this?  How many "double triggers" per hit were you getting?


Quote: "i wonder if i should put the back cover back up and cut a piece of the foam to put it where the beaters hit the mesh..."

Well it's worth a go, but you're back to Mk1 config then!  And you may find that now the sensor is at the edge
the sound is not loud enough.  Surely it didn't work as Mk1 or you wouldn't have converted to Mk2?

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well i dont want to send ti back as they are already replacing the brain. they will think i am some kind of stupid or something...

yes it was not good in mk1 but the sensor was in the middle so i guess it would catch up everything easier. perhaps with just a piece of foam in the middle it will get better.....
i will give it a go tomorrow to see. when i connected the drums in rock band isaw that some times even one hit registered 4 kick hits...
i also think my mesh is vibrating a lot. but if i have it lose it just rebounds back after the hit and hits again the pedal and registers. in max2 curve, even the wind would register a hit if i have threshold at -48 which was awkward. the sligthest move of the pedal base, would trigger many many sounds even without the beater touching the mesh

[Slap the drummer]

well i dont want to send ti back as they are already replacing the brain. they will think i am some kind of stupid or something...

You shouldn't worry about that.  You have a right to something that works properly.  I take it you're not in the UK?

when i connected the drums in rock band isaw that some times even one hit registered 4 kick hits...
i also think my mesh is vibrating a lot. but if i have it lose it just rebounds back after the hit and hits again the pedal and registers. in max2 curve, even the wind would register a hit if i have threshold at -48 which was awkward. the sligthest move of the pedal base, would trigger many many sounds even without the beater touching the mesh

So can I just confirm this - with Max2 and otherwise normal settings, any single stroke produces a lot of triggers, right?  How many, a
lot more than 4?  A buzz roll like I described, or not as bad as that?
I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly.


Don't rush ahead too much, it pays to be systematic with these things, or you go round in circles.

But if you do want to try jumping ahead to Stage 17  , one thing I was going to suggest is this.....

Before you start damping the head try to get the tension right first.  Go to Max2 and back off the threshold setting.
Deliberately try and produce multiple triggers and try and see if different tensions are better than others.  Also,
try slacking off one or maybe 2 nuts more than the others, this can help reduce resonance.  It might all be the same
but it makes sense to try and find the best tuning before you start experimenting with damping it.

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i am from greece mate

with max2 and normal settings (normal gain and thres) i get many triggers. more than for. if i tighten the mesh very much, i get one thousand triggers, i could say. even my breath triggered it

what you say in the last paragraph is very clever mate. i will try it tomorrow and post again the results.thank you very very much for the help and suggestions

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because i was too tired to film a nice video i did some experiments. i put again the back plate and foam. in the beginning i put just the oval piece of foam just where the beater hits on the mesh.well the result was that only in max2 and with thresh at -48 would i get a hit. and that was many many hits with one kick of my foot. then i decided to put foam somewhere else in the mesh apart from where the beater hits. still same thing. hits would register only with max2 and low threshold. so i removed back plate again and screwed some screws really good and left 2 others almost unscrewed so that there would be not symmetric tension in the mesh head. in max2 and thresh-48 it would trigger many many double hits again. but in normal curve and thresh -12 with gain at 10, it would minimise the double triggers. still they happen but i found that this is the only configuration that can be "playable"

i am so sad i dunno what is wrong...anyway, i am still hangovered so i will speak ore tomorrow. thanx to all for listening to my problems

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today i talked to a great greek guy that had bought the mk1 version . he told me that he had also made the conversion to mk2 as well. and then he reverted (due to many double triggers ) to mk1 again. he told me his settings. gain 0(fuckin strange) thresh -33 curve norm. and with tight mesh head. he can play double pedal and everything triggers amazingly well. with these settings i cant trigger anything with mk1 conversion. i guess this is another proof that my kick is problematic. anyone else of you with mk1 can get triggers with gain at zero? cause i cant no matter what

[rythm]

I did the conversion too, but with bad triggering results. Instead I put the sensor back, took out the middle piece of foam and tightened the head. And now it works good. Don´t remember my gain/threshold settings at the moment, but could get back here later with them.

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that would be awesome thank you. i havent made my video yet cause i was working all day will makeit soon

[rythm]

Gain 10, threshold -36.