Author Topic: New 2box library project  (Read 6253 times)

PeteThePole

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New 2box library project
« on: September 19, 2016, 07:55:12 PM »
Hello Guys,

Long story short, I got tired of the original 2box sounds.
I couldnt find any samples that fit my style and needs while playing live.
As i do not own any vst instruments i have decided to hit the studio and record samples for my own dsnds.
As nothing stands in the way of doing so, i have decided to invest a lot of time and resources to make that project "semi-big".
The reasons for that are as follows:
- I have access to a lot of great sounding instruments
- I recently got access to a beautifuly sounding studio room that gives "body and soul" to the drum sound
- As i also am a 2boxer, i feel the pain of not having an easy way of obtaining good sounding samples  (without having to buy vsti's , then buying sdse,then exporting them through sdse/dsnd tool)
- I have been a recording drummer since the last 17 years, i also have an educational background in studio production

On the 17th october, i am entering the studio to record samples of 5 different shellsets, about 10 snares and about 40 different cymbals.

 As for the 2box community, my goal is to provide You with great sounding dsnd files/kits ready to load into the 2box module.

 To achieve that, i would like to read your feedback, as to what kinds of samples would You be willing to buy for a reasonable price ? What i exactly have in mind is:
- What kits/instruments is there a demand for ? What instrument would You like to have in your 2box library ?
- What kind of style/tuning would You like those instruments in ? Do you want me to record/edit the drumset tuned to blues/jazz, pop or maybe metal ?

Every kind of feedback i can get from You guys is highly appreaciated.

I also have a technical question, maybe some of You can help me.
Is there a way of exporting recorded samples to a dsnd quickly ?
I know the hard way of making a dsnd from many wave files, but maybe someone here could spare me weeks/months of work.

Anyway, cheers!

« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 12:04:46 AM by PeteThePole »

Xenu

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 07:03:23 AM »
I would love Danny Carey's Kit sampled which is made out of melted paiste cymbals or even the sonor kit he plays (which is custom too).

Any chance you'll be sampling his Sonor sig snare?

Would love any/all of his cymbals but especially the paiste cup chime cymbals.

http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-plays-what/189-tool-danny-carey-drum-kit-gear-and-drum-set-equipment

espen

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 08:35:36 AM »
Hello Guys,

Long story short, I got tired of the original 2box sounds.
I couldnt find any samples that fit my style and needs while playing live.
As i do not own any vst instruments i have decided to hit the studio and record samples for my own dsnds.
As nothing stands in the way of doing so, i have decided to invest a lot of time and resources to make that project "semi-big".
The reasons for that are as follows:
- I have access to a lot of great sounding instruments
- I recently got access to a beautifuly sounding studio room that gives "body and soul" to the drum sound
- As i also am a 2boxer, i feel the pain of not having an easy way of obtaining good sounding samples  (without having to buy vsti's , then buying sdse,then exporting them through sdse/dsnd tool)
- I have been a recording drummer since the last 17 years, i also have an educational background in studio production

On the 17th october, i am entering the studio to record samples of 5 different shellsets, about 10 snares and about 40 different cymbals.

 As for the 2box community, my goal is to provide You with great sounding dsnd files/kits ready to load into the 2box module.

 To achieve that, i would like to read your feedback, as to what kinds of samples would You be willing to buy for a reasonable price ? What i exactly have in mind is:
- What kits/instruments is there a demand for ? What instrument would You like to have in your 2box library ?
- What kind of style/tuning would You like those instruments in ? Do you want me to record/edit the drumset tuned to blues/jazz, pop or maybe metal ?

Every kind of feedback i can get from You guys is highly appreaciated.

I also have a technical question, maybe some of You can help me.
Is there a way of exporting recorded samples to a dsnd quickly ?
I know the hard way of making a dsnd from many wave files, but maybe someone here could spare me weeks/months of work.

Anyway, cheers!

Wow, very interesting project. I'm really looking forward to the result. This is something I would like to do also but no facilities. I´m definately interested to help you with this

Some things that came to my mind:

Are you going to use close mics, overheads + room mics? I've made extensive testing with a PA, e-drums and drum VSTs I think there is very little need for room mics in the mix. Close mics and reverb of your liking just works so much better in rock/metal type of sound to my ears. Excessive room mic sound usually weakens the punch of the drums. Jazz etc may be completely different ball game though. My point is that besides you offer ready dsnds it may be good to offer raw wav files too for people get to make their own mixes.

Second thing is that it's good for you to know that you don't need 100 of different layers per instrument. I have noticed that already with 20 layers you can get very nice and smooth dynamic range without machine gunning. For snare and maybe for hihat closed (and nearly closed) samples it's good to have more. Of course it's good to record as many as possible but for example for cymbals that decay forever less is more approach could be beneficial. The key here is a nice distribution over whole velocity range from soft to hard hits.

To my ears its always better to have quite a lot snare wires on low velocities. Buzz rolls and such are much more smooth that way. So I recommend rather loose wires if it does not spoil overall sound of snare. Also, snare wire rattling on kick, and especially on toms gives nice impresion of complete drum kit if you know what I mean.

If you are sampling hihat, please focus on the closed part of it. For example if I was sampling 7 levels of openess I would take 4 levels before half open and only two after that. This is because the nuances in closed part are much more important IMO.

Good luck for the project and don't hesitate to contact me (e.g. with PM) if needing help.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 09:05:50 PM by espen »

welshsteve

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 09:30:56 AM »
Brilliant advice there! I was planning on sampling my 14" Meinl Soundcaster Dark hats as I love them... I'll take on board your advice and if the results are good, I'll post some links for you to hear!

espen

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 10:50:32 AM »
Great! Looking forward to hear.

PeteThePole

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 08:09:48 PM »
@Xenu

Thanks for the feedback mate!

I'm going to look around if i can get my hands on anything You have mentioned.
Will let You know for sure.

@espen

You're a lifesaver my friend!

Quote from: espen
Are you going to use close mics, overheads + room mics?

I was planning on making extensive use of room mics. However after reading your post i am taking into consideration the fact, that the tracks recorded with the room mics will be later on discarded.
Like youre saying, it all depends on what the overall sound of a recording needs in terms of drum sound.

Quote from: espen
My point is that besides you offer ready dsnds it may be good to offer raw wav files too for people get to make their own mixes.

The wav files will be available to anyone buying the dsnds, free of any additional charge.

Quote from: espen
Second thing is that it's good for you to know that you don't need 100 of different layers per instrument. I have noticed that already with 20 layers you can get very nice and smooth dynamic range without machine gunning. For snare and maybe for hihat closed (and nearly closed) samples it's good to have more. Of course it's good to record as many as possible but for example for cymbals that decay forever less is more approach could be beneficial. The key here is a nice distribution over whole velocity range from smooth to hard hits.

Great advice, i already knew that the 2box is quite versatile with how little samples it has to choose from.
But that goes much more in detail, thanks!

Quote from: espen
Good luck for the project and don't hesitate to contact me (e.g. with PM) if needing help.

Thank You verry much! I will surely ask some more questions until You get fed up with me :)

espen

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 09:04:33 PM »
I was planning on making extensive use of room mics. However after reading your post i am taking into consideration the fact, that the tracks recorded with the room mics will be later on discarded.
Like youre saying, it all depends on what the overall sound of a recording needs in terms of drum sound.

The thing is that room mics are nice and more or less necessary to have in recordings, and they usually do sound good from headphones. But when using e-drums through PA they rarely give you what you expect.

Happy if I can help.  :D

PeteThePole

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2016, 04:49:04 PM »
Hey Guys,

Had to re-arange my plans and i will be hitting the studio a little earlier-  14th of october.
The less time for You to share your thoughts/expectations/advice before i record the drums.
I am counting on You  ;D

tower of p

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2016, 06:30:15 PM »
This is a very interesting project and I´m looking forward to hearing the results.

I would be especially interested in a good working live-kit for use over PA. Genre Rock/ Pop.


Good luck!
Cheers,
Lutz

sn47som

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2016, 03:36:27 AM »
Finally a project like this is really coming to life!!!! I am SOOOOOOO onboard with this. I'll be following this and providing ideas every step of the way. If no shortcuts are taken and great quality and multi sampling velocities are plenty then I am willing to gladly pay for every sample recorded!! I hope the sessions go extremely well and fun for you. Ill be there with you in spirit.    :drum1:   :rock:

Just throwing out some ideas here:

-if you can, try and record 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 size toms  (13, 15 optional)
-try and concentrate more on hihats and rides for cymbals
I would love to see Sonor, Yamaha, Mapex, Pearl Masterworks to be sampled but if you had to pick one then Sonor by a LONG shot.
-Dont record any ambient noise or any snare bleed whatsoever. Or have multiple versions, dry, roomy, big...
-concentrate more on close/direct mics we want it all- attack, punch, sustain, roundness and fullness!!
-use tubes on the kicks and toms for that warm tone- tone is key as we all know
-use some eq and compression! :)


« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 02:51:51 PM by sn47som »

hotchap

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2016, 02:24:45 PM »
Great News!
Just some of my inputs for live playing which have already been highlighted in the earlier posts and required when performing on a PA system:
•   Close mic recording for attack, fullness, projection.
•   Any chance of using 2 mics for the kick- 1 flatbed mic near the batter head & 1 near the resonant head.
•   Mild equalization and compression
•   General Rock/ Pop/Country standard setting scenario
•   No effect/ ambient sound.
 I hope this helps  :)

All the best!   :patbat2box:
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 02:30:24 PM by hotchap »

PeteThePole

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2016, 10:04:29 PM »
Thanks for all the enthusiasm.
I was starting to think that not a lot of people are interested in quality samples for our 2box modules.

I have some (not so positive) news about the project.

First of all i would like to apologise for, in a way false promise i made.
I contacted a major company that is renting instruments.
They have high quality sets like top tier pearl, sonor and gretsch kits.
The cost of renting them however is unfortunately to excessive to me and would shoot my budget through the roof.
I therefore i have to stick to the instruments i already have at my disposal.
I will list my favorite ones wich already proved to be great instruments in past recording sessions:

A Mapex Saturn kit 22"14"10"12"14"
A DW PDP LX kit 22"14"8"10"12"14"

Cymbals:

Sabian AAX fast hats 14"
Zildjian K 14" hi hat
Paiste dimmensions power bell ride 22"
Zildjian A custom projection crash 17"
Zildjian K dark crash  ( i dont remember the size)
Sabian HHX china 18"
Two sabian HHX splashes

And lots more besides those listed.

I am going to use multiple microphones to record every single instrument.
I will still set up and record room mics, how much of them is going into the mix (if any) will be seen after the recordings. Before i release the kits , all of them will be tested multiple times live and the sound will be tweaked to best suit the live environment.  I hope to do this also between recording sessions to possibly change something with the recording method if need be.
Thank You for the input about the "genre style" the drums should be recorded in.
Boy do i need to listen to some good country to get that one right :)

Thanks for the productive input and keep it coming!


sn47som

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 06:18:26 PM »
Thats great to hear things are moving forward! Too bad about the high end kits...

But you can make most any kit sound great with good heads and consistent tuning.
Overall the best sounding heads for toms especially for recording are clear 2ply batter heads and clear or ebony 1 ply resonant heads. Clear emperors are a favorite and clear ambassador resonant head.

If you're using lower to mid level kits its even more crucial to get these heads and a great tune on them.

You can do 2 different versions for tuning. You could do a fat lower tuned bigger type of drum sound and you can do a higher tuned "let them sing" type of tuning too.

wildhorse5678

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2016, 09:30:50 PM »
I'd be very interested in hearing what you end up with. I'm a gigging drummer so it's kits that sound good and very solid through a PA that I would be interested in.. No effects as that can be added after.  Ref costs..I've no idea.  But be usefully to be able to hear them before buying.

wildhorse5678

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Re: New 2box library project
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2016, 09:40:42 PM »
Pete, just a thought but where in the country are you? It may be that other drummers close to you could loan you additional kits to record.  I have a 1987 Premier Resonator Black shadow kit, 22. Kick 12 14 16 toms, fitted the original Premier Ds heads. If you were in easy distance from Sheffield I'd be happy to loan it.
  The other option worth considering is using different batter heads on the same kit.