First step to DIY-hihat

[Manfred]

Hello,

for those of you which are interested in using the 2Box-Brain with other pads and cymbals i did a small test regarding the Hihat. There are reports that other pads and cymbals already work out of the box with the 2Box-Brain but there is no compatible hihat at the market. So lets see if we can create one by ourselves.

At first i measured the voltages and currents of the ring-contact of the connector when i open and close the hihat. The oscilloscope shows that there is just DC and no AC or digital signal. Further on my multimeters show the following values:

Open HiHat: 3.81 Volts / 4.48 mA
Closed Hihat: 3.81 Volts / 4.07 mA

This means a resistance of 850 Ohms for the open hihat and 936 Ohms for the closed hihat. After that i took 2 resistors of 820 Ohms and 27 Ohms and a potentiometer with 100 Ohms. Connected the 3 resistors in series results in a variable resistor from 847 Ohms to 947 Ohms. This fits almost to the range measured before.

If you connect these resistors between the ring and the sleeve contact you can open and close the hihat by turning the potentiometer. Here are two videos where i tried to film the results. The quality is very very poor but you can divine the bargraph of the pedal at the UNIT-TRIG-page. It changes when i turn the poti with the screwdriver. Sorry for the quality but my digicam is 8 years old and the video function is almost unusable.

http://www.4shared.com/video/-ABlpPiq/P1010008.html
http://www.4shared.com/video/ZPueh4g-/P1010009.html

If you have a pedal working with resistive sensing you can maybe modify it to the correct resistor values. Of course you can also create a DIY-solution. I have no cymbal pad from an other vendor so i couldn't test if this would work instead the original one. This would be the second step on the way to a complete Hihat.

Greets, Manfred

[Manfred]

There have been some discussions in the german drummerforum about the hihat in the last days. Here is a drawing of the level detection:

[nonoduweb]

Great job! 
Did you try to make a schema (with a potentiometer) to regulate the input gain of the pads (snare and toms)?

[edtc]

hi Manfred

do you think it is possible to convert this yamaha hh60 hihat pedal for use with the drumit5 ?



what components should be added to match the 2box resistance .?

[Jman]

hi Manfred

do you think it is possible to convert this yamaha hh60 hihat pedal for use with the drumit5 ?



what components should be added to match the 2box resistance .?

I'm not sure what the resistance range is on the Yammie pedal, but as an example a Roland VH-11 range is about 8 Ohms (Closed) to 20K Ohms (Full Open) ... so in that case judging by Manfreds post ... the high end resistance range is much lower for the 2Box HH control (than Roland anyway). I think it would be better to DIY from scratch .... Here is a somewhat related subject where some have built a HH controller for Megadrum (resistance range could be adjusted for 2Box)
http://www.megadrum.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=881

That is the direction I am thinking about experimenting in.... I'll let you know if I get anywhere positive when I finally get my module ..... still hasn't even shipped to me yet

[edtc]

thanx Jman , nice link...

What s your friend doing with this damned module ?....

[Jman]

thanx Jman , nice link...

What s your friend doing with this damned module ?....

I vaguely remember telling him .... "take your time, test it out for yourself" damn, why'd I say that?

[edtc]

...  you know Jman , waiting is somewhere part of the 2box "syndrom."...

  many people here had to wait long time since they get their kit , i waited a year for the module to be available alone , and a lot of us are still waiting for spare parts...(some are making their own stuff...)

...so you see guy , this is just normal... 

but it s worth the wait ....

[edtc]

hello

did anybody have any succes on adapting or building a hi hat control pedal ?

I mean like a simple variable pedal like fd8 , not something that needs a magnet or some moving cymbal pad ...

[Manfred]

Hello,

did some more measurements yesterday because the first design has no differentiation between edge and bow.

The voltage between Tip and sleeve is always around 3,8V. The current through ring-contact is listed in the following table:

Level       Switch         Current

open        open           4,58mA
closed      open           3,98mA
open        closed         5,99mA
closed      closed         5,40mA


As shown in the table the current is about 1.4mA higher if the edge switch is pressed. So one more resistor can be added and connected to the edge switch of the cymbal:



Anyway, this works here but no warranty that it works everywhere. Anything you do, you do at your own risk of course  

Regards, Manfred

[Manfred]

Hello,

both at the german drummerforum and here a lot of people ask about how to connect a Roland-Hihat to the 2Box. Based on my measurements in the last post and the resistor values Jman posted for the VH11 i made a first draft. Up to now it is only an idea and only tested with simulation. But maybe this helps somebody. This is the wiring diagram:





I do not really know how a VH11 works, i have only the resistor values Jman posted above. Obviously it has a 20kOhm poti and i assume that is has a piezo for bow and a switch for edge detection. Simulation of this circuit results in following plots. The plots show the current through the ring connetor (y-axis) vs. resistance of the poti (x-axis):

Bow:



Edge:



This matches pretty good to the currents i measured at the 2Box hihat. As you can see it is not really linear but for a first test it is okay i think.  Again, this is just a draft based on simulation. Simulation is sometimes pretty close but never 100% reality. I would try if i had a VH11 but it might be possible that some resistor values need to be modified. Anyway, the first test would be to confirm the simulation with measurements on a prototype.

Regards, Manfred

[edtc]

hello

.... some news about DIY hi hat solution ?

i ve finally bought a cheap second hand DTXPLORER , that includes the hi hat controller , and i d love to make it compatible with my orange module ...  
  it works thru MIDI ( not very good but enough to  know that it transmits CC 4 , the open sound does not stop when i press down the pedal..)  with the controller plugged in the  DTX  connected into the Drumit ... but as i cant assign the midi notes propperly in the DTX , or in the Drumit ... so the result isnt good...

[Manfred]

Hi,

there is some progress but it takes 1-2 more weeks to see whether it works or not.

Regards, Manfred

[edtc]

Hi,

there is some progress but it takes 1-2 more weeks to see whether it works or not.

Regards, Manfred

cool to hear that...   what is your concept ?  a clone of the magnet design , or a pedal with a pot or optical resistor or something else ?

[waynec42]

I'm not sure what the resistance range is on the Yammie pedal, but as an example a Roland VH-11 range is about 8 Ohms (Closed) to 20K Ohms (Full Open) ... so in that case judging by Manfreds post ... the high end resistance range is much lower for the 2Box HH control (than Roland anyway). I think it would be better to DIY from scratch .... Here is a somewhat related subject where some have built a HH controller for Megadrum (resistance range could be adjusted for 2Box)
http://www.megadrum.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=881

That is the direction I am thinking about experimenting in.... I'll let you know if I get anywhere positive when I finally get my module ..... still hasn't even shipped to me yet

I have been experimenting with the Yamaha HH65. I've managed to make it work but what is strange is the resistance variation. It is ranging from approx 30ohms to 130ohms. I started trying to make it work with the values Manfred suggested - 800-900ohms, but this did nothing. Fortunately I had a variable pot in the circuit to give me 800ohms. When I wound it pretty much down to 0, then I had an effect on the hihat input. I am able to calibrate it to work, although, it's not yet perfect. I want play with the values a bit to try and increase the range.