Problems playing live after 4 Gigs.

[NewEDrummer]

Hi guys,
I am really struggling here with my kit live,
I seem to get the sounds for the pads sounding ace
The sensitivity is great can lightly tap them and beat the hell out of them.
Then when we start playing it all goes tits up
The snare doesn't respond like it did the light strokes just don't happen
Even though I saved everything and exited the edit pages.
Also every time I go to use them,the snare I set as my main doesn't save I have to go back in the settings to find again.
Then the cymbals......these are really spoiling my live performance and overall experience.
The hi hat has absolutely no feeling when I watch performances on you tube you rarely see guys opening their hats .....now I know why. I have tried all sorts of settings , maybe I just don't understand what everything means and the combinations in the settings it really is winding me up.
Even the crashes they work well but sometimes they just don't trigger I've had the sensitivity set so I can tap lightly then again hammer for the most they work but odd times they don't.
The ride cymbal just doesn't work at all and the rubbers are starting  to split on the cymbal edge I'm by no means a hard hitter but the edge gives the best triggering for some reason.
I bought a Roland cy14 which I use for my ride it's 2 zone but have the bell on the edge and it triggers beautifully I don't like the swinging it does it's a bit much but what a cymbal.
If I buy more of these will they solve the triggering issues.
Also does anyone have a hi hat that works?
Can you share settings please? Are Roland hats the best way to go?
I use the module as my in ear monitor for the band I have an out for the kick and another out for everything else my line comes back into the aux pot.
The way the kit is mixed to give a great front of house sound means the cymbals and toms are very very high in my ear mix is there any way to control these different levels without having a line out for each. I thought I would be able to control the drum mix in my ears from the unit without messing with front of house or the mix of the other instruments and vocals coming at me from the aux, it's like I have to set the levels funny for the cymbals and tons for them to cut through so it really messes my overall drum mix up in my ears real loud cymbals etc.....do I need to have a separate out for everything to combat this then the monitor guy can control my in ear levels without adjusting FOH levels?
There are lots of settings that I don't understand on the kit and I will be honest I'm a step away from Going back to the tamas and the audix.
Thanks for your time guys.

[Coda]

I'm sorry to hear you're having so much trouble. I play my kit live and don't have these issues, the only thing I struggled with in the beginning was getting something in my phones/in-ears which resembled what was heard in the PA.
One thing about cymbals, (I don't use any 2box hardware except the module), I have used Roland cymbals before I made my own and they always triggered perfectly. Currently I am still using my VH-11 hit hat but will switch over to real hats (with triggers) soon. Everything I hit, once set up properly at home, triggers the same when on stage. Though I use 5 outs to FOH, and monitor drums locally, everything else is in a monitor feed from FOH. I can't comment on your 2 channel setup, I couldn't do that myself, not having level controls over separate very-different-timbre instruments would kill me.
One thing you may have missed in the manual, is that your in-ears (outs 7+8) can be from different sources, these being channels 7+8 (obviously, but then they are line-outs, not phones level), sub, and mix. Only if your channels are going through the internal mixer, can you adjust the levels on the 2box mixer (sounds obvious but it's easily missed). You know, the mixer you see when you press INT. Otherwise you have to change the levels on each instrument (KIT -> press each pad -> change level -> save).
Just thinking out loud regarding your triggering, I'd check that a) you don't have a bass amp or something pointed at you on stage, nor is there anything near you which provides interference, and if possible use a filtering extension cable, and b) that you don't have the Mask or XTalk settings turned up too high on any of the pads.
Don't know how else to help here, but I hope you solve it soon.

[NewEDrummer]

Hi thanks for your reply, I sound like a right whining git haha!
So if the bass player sets up next to my kit that can mess with triggering?
I did not know that, so in smaller venues it could be a really big issue.
Also being new to all this tech have no idea X talk and mask curve etc etc mean,
I read on here strike a pad as hard as you can and turn the gain down until it just peaks and then set sensitivity so that it triggers when striking very lightly.
So with gain on zero it peaks haha! So got no idea what to do there, except turn the gains up and the volume down in kit with each pad/ cymbal.
This us basically how I mix the kit with the Pa speakers facing me until I think it sounds great to my ears then the rest of the band is mixed to the kit.
The hi hat is the biggest issue tho it's like hitting a dead fish.
Sounds great but that's the module it just doesn't perform for my style I think nor will it ever?

[Coda]

If my kit disatisfied me as much as it sounds like yours does, I'd be a 'whining git' too :-)
Yes, regarding triggering, the piezo elements in the cymbals and drums are basically microphones. They pick up vibrations and electromagnetic waves. Big bass amps and PA speakers are particularly a problem if they are too close. As an example, sometimes when I'm counting in the band, my stick clicks are triggering the snare. That's how sensitive they are.
I've never played the 2box hihat, so I can't say, I will let others comment on that one.
Regarding Mask and XTalk, best thing to do is make sure they are at 0 and OFF respectively for all pads. Then, only increase Mask if you get double triggering on the same pad. XTalk (Crosstalk) is to prevent triggering a different pad when you hit one pad, for example, you hear a Ride bow ping when hitting Tom3 reasonably hard, go to Tom3 and set XTalk to Low, and if that doesn't help, Med, then High, etc.
Regarding gains, the gain numbers are positive up as you'd expect (6 means a 6db gain), but the levels reported on the INT page are DB0 relative (0 is peak, minus numbers are less sensitive).
Hope this helps, but there are others here that are way more knowledgable than me when it comes to the 2box pads and cymbals (as I've never owned them).

[NewEDrummer]

That's awesome thanks so much for your help, I will persevere ..... Onwards and upwards!
I will report back when I am
A) Happy
Or
B) have invented a new rubber frisbee for next doors dog!
👍

[Murgen]

You might have a fluctuating power issue, if the adapter has to work with a crappy feed your module might act up with strange behaviour.

[NewEDrummer]

Thanks for the advice on that will deffo check it out although I don't think it's power.

[Murgen]

Thanks for the advice on that will deffo check it out although I don't think it's power.

Sure, it is just one of those things that might happen in a gig.

[dboomer]

Have you tried recording your performance on an isolated track?  There could be many reasons for your difficulties and one of them could be that the 2box is actually performing as it should but that your monitoring is holding you back. A recording could rule that out.

That said, it took me several weeks to dial in triggering and sample playback parameters to my liking.

[NewEDrummer]

Hi Don,
Yeah recorded things and sounds ace little tweaks here and there but on the whole sounds great,
The playability of the hi hat tho sucks and the odd Mistriggering in a cymbal as stated,
My biggest bug bear are the hi hats, especially after watching a demo of a Roland td25
Where the hats behaved beautifully
I've heard that I can use Roland hats with the 2 box crashes rides drum pads all no problem,
Just the hats are a no can do.

[Coda]

I've heard that I can use Roland hats with the 2 box crashes rides drum pads all no problem,
Just the hats are a no can do.

That's not entirely true. Because the 2box uses a hall effect sensor rather than a resistance potentiometer, the controller portion won't work (for example the cylinder thing which sits under the VH-11). The cymbal part of the hat works just fine. What you need is to build or buy a new controller box, then you can use any cymbal you want as a hi-hat or even real hihats with the appropriate trigger attached. See the first post at http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,1890.0.html.

[Jman]

I replied to your PM NewEDrummer. I decided to copy this here though just as a reference for others on how HH play works with the 2Box module. This is with the Palmer song Addicted to Love as a reference with the drawn out partially open HH to closed HH transition:

For playing a partially open to closed transition you need to be sure to have the cymbal open before striking..... IE if you hit the HH cymbal on the up swing that won't produce the sound you are looking for. Here is the process if you were playing the HH closed..... closed hit, then open HH partially before the next hit, Hit the partially open HH (that is where you will need a little testing and practice to find the right amount to let off the pedal, if you let off the pedal completely you will get a more open sound, open too little and too closed of a sound, gotta find the sweet spot), now close the hat. In the Palmer song obviously you hold the HH open longer than normal.

If you play it like this it will be a total mess: Closed hit, then hit the HH cymbal while you are opening it...... NO GOOD. That is just how 2Box works whether using the 2Box HH or my mod box with other cymbals.

From my own experience and the collection of feedback I have gotten I do believe the transitioning and performance with my mod are a bit more predictable than the stock hat ..... But either way, the above example is just how that works. Hope it helps, J

And as a side note since HH sounds vary depending on the 2Box dsnd, some have more transitions than others, and different sounds obviously ...... testing a few different HH .dsnds is another thing that will help find the right fit. It is actually possible to build a HH dsnd that would only contain the partial open sound plus the closed HH sound ..... So in other words it would be possible to build a custom HH .dsnd that takes the guess work out of finding the right open sound as that would be the Top open sound of the HH .dsnd. You might check with Lustar in reference to his program SDSE for some really custom options on 2Box .dsnd building.

[NewEDrummer]

Hi Jman,
Just got your e mail and this reply.
Great great advice sir!
Will give this all a go and see how things will work out and let you all know.
Thankyou everyone for your time.
As a side note, I have been using the 2Box as my live kit, started with the pads and caustic cymbals as
I didn't trust the e cyms but now am fully,
Electronic. My only concern ( apart from the damn hi hat!) is the durability of the 2box gear being carted in and out of venues and the back of a car etc.
It is already showing signs of wear now.
Have noticed the Jobeky kits and the shell pack seems reasonable and my thoughts are leave the 2 box kit set up for practice and then just disconnect the module and take that to gigs along with the Jobeky kit and e cyms.
Anyone know what they are like to play with regards to sensitivity and dynamics?
Basically do they work and do they work well?
Thanks Guys.
Can't wait to adapt my playing style even more 👍

[Coda]

As far as I remember, Jobeky have a showroom and accept visitors. I have heard nothing but good things about them, but have no personal direct experience.

[NewEDrummer]

Cool they ain't that far from me,
I'll be having a trip down there me thinks 👍