Exporting samples

[sn47som]

Hey guys, does exporting samples from vst software decrease the quality of the samples? I notice sdse renders them only in 16 bit? most native vst samples are 24 bit. What gives?

[Lustar]

The sounds are exported as they are played by the VST, what is exported is what is set in the VST so it's possible to export any preset. SDSE renders in 24-bit then processes the sounds and converts to 16-bit before creating the .dsnd files (.dsnd files can't be in 24-bit)

[sn47som]

ahhh so thats why they dont sound as good wen in dsnd format compared to its vst format? but some factory module dsnd samples sound better than superior drummers samples, weird

[Coda]

Because it's not about the bit depth. The difference between 16 and 24 bit samples is the dynamic range. This affects the noise floor mostly. There's a couple of problems with this: the 2box headphone amp I think is quite noisy, and secondly the 2box has a different EQ too, so through the headphones it's impossible to do a proper comparison with what you can hear on the computer (plus the computer has it's own audio circuitry which affects the sound too).
The closest comparisons you can do, is to listen on the PC to converted 16bit samples from the VST (even though most people won't have the phones or speakers to be able to tell the difference between 16 and 24) that go out through a decent audio interface, into a mixing desk, and into decent studio headphones. Then play them from the 2box which is also connected to the same mixing desk (separate channels 1-6 not the headphone out). The dsounds need to have been made with Tune parameter at 0, otherwise they are slightly degraded in sample frequency.

I need to stop yacking about it and do this test myself.

[Jman]

It's funny, I read many times about the dsnds sounding different in the 2Box module and I never really gave it a lot of thought because when I was playing it was not a problem. And then I realized I have been running my modules via direct outs to a mixer from day 1 and listening to the sounds via the mixer headphone jack. That is something I have been doing for years, even with Roland modules before I switched to 2Box. But if I listen to the same sounds on a module set to default output assignments through the module headphone jack it is very different.

A thread discussing this: http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,2681.msg22675.html#msg22675

You can setup the module so the EQ and effects are not sent to the headphone output, but I am not sure if that is the only thing going on. So Coda, yeah, if you find out any more on that it would be good to put the mystery to rest some day. J

[sn47som]

Because it's not about the bit depth. The difference between 16 and 24 bit samples is the dynamic range. This affects the noise floor mostly. There's a couple of problems with this: the 2box headphone amp I think is quite noisy, and secondly the 2box has a different EQ too, so through the headphones it's impossible to do a proper comparison with what you can hear on the computer (plus the computer has it's own audio circuitry which affects the sound too).
The closest comparisons you can do, is to listen on the PC to converted 16bit samples from the VST (even though most people won't have the phones or speakers to be able to tell the difference between 16 and 24) that go out through a decent audio interface, into a mixing desk, and into decent studio headphones. Then play them from the 2box which is also connected to the same mixing desk (separate channels 1-6 not the headphone out). The dsounds need to have been made with Tune parameter at 0, otherwise they are slightly degraded in sample frequency.

I need to stop yacking about it and do this test myself.

so the perceived sound degradation isn't because of the lower dynamical range in 16 bit? does make sense as dynamics isn't sound quality. ur saying it could be the different eq in the module and insufficient comparisons? i definitely hear a little degradation via my pa speaker comparing both exactly the same. the MAIN difference is the exported dsnd samples lose attack, punch, presence and fullness and it cant be gained back as far as I know how to do..... sux

[Coda]

You can setup the module so the EQ and effects are not sent to the headphone output, but I am not sure if that is the only thing going on. So Coda, yeah, if you find out any more on that it would be good to put the mystery to rest some day. J

Yeah, but it's not the EQ of the EQ that I meant, my bad. To be more specific, EQ as in the 'colour' of the amp circuit driving the headphone output. I didn't spend a lot of time looking at the PCB the last time I had the module open, but I really should try to determine what op-amps are being used. It's quite common in some audio equipment which has separate line outs and phone outs to have another opamp driving just the phones output, and this one is usually the problem, but it's not usually significant because for pro work you'd use the line outs. Problem is with us drummers, most of us wear headphones, because the noise situation living in apartments :-)
Anyway, I got hold of a 16track analogue desk recently, so when I have time I'm going to do some proper investigation.

[Coda]

so the perceived sound degradation isn't because of the lower dynamical range in 16 bit? does make sense as dynamics isn't sound quality. ur saying it could be the different eq in the module and insufficient comparisons? i definitely hear a little degradation via my pa speaker comparing both exactly the same. the MAIN difference is the exported dsnd samples lose attack, punch, presence and fullness and it cant be gained back as far as I know how to do..... sux

Yep, as I wrote above (or rather a correction to what I wrote) by EQ, I meant what most people call 'colour'. Each different part of a circuit that a signal travels through will affect the sound, or colour it in some way. I don't think there is anything that exists which is completely colourless or has a neutral affect on the sound. So even if all your EQ is off on the module, if there is a different opamp (or any other kind of amp) in the circuits of you PC and module, they could sound completely different. Someone suggested that the module hikes up the low-mids a bit, around 400-500hz, but I've yet to conclude if this is the case, and what is causing it, if true.
So anyway, back on focus, can you describe the signal chain that you are using, on the pc side, and then on the 2box side? Which amp, desk, soundcard, anything else that the signal goes through, please?

[sn47som]

super simple actually

2box output 1 direct to line in pa speaker. 2box eq on or off still doesn't sound as good as vst.

i have superior drummer on my laptop that i run headphone size jack outf rom laptop to pa speaker. obviously i select it going out as speaker, not headphones. the vsts sound better with more attack direct from software.