Author Topic: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!  (Read 3871 times)

ANGR77

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A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« on: November 28, 2015, 08:11:53 PM »
Hi all!

I have a question to you all that have done the HH mod from Jman or similar implementations and is using a Roland e-cymbal like VH-11, VH-12, CY-8 as the hihat pad.

Studying the original 2Box hihat...when hitting the edge switch...by default on (at least on my gear) the edge switch is quite hard getting to trigger...and the piezo sensor will most often trigger instead when hitting the edge. (It is of course a mix of signals when hitting the edge but mostly piezo hits will be number 4 in 2Box)

Using a Roland e-cymbal gear will by default give you an easier way to trigger the edge switch...

To the question...has anybody experienced false triggering or other strange behaviors when using HH mod with a Roland HH e-pad when playing with the edge switch? Or does it work just as good (or bad) as the 2Box implementation?

Best regards

Angr77

Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystallite, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

Coda

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Re: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2015, 09:56:00 PM »
I switched back to the VH-11 today because I still haven't got my modified acoustic hats working 100% and I'm playing live in the morning so it needs to just work. The VH-11 triggers zone 8 when hitting the edge, and zone 4 when hitting the bow, every time.

Two things... 1) The VH-11 and other Roland pads are quite hot, so on my implementation (like others) I use a variable resistor to tame it. 2) If your magnet is very strong (like a strong Neodymium) and it is physically quite close to the sensor when the hat is closed, this can affect the zone detection (credit to Manfred and Jman for pointing that out to me before when trying to troubleshoot my hats issue). I am switching from neodymiums to a strong ferrous ring (est about 1/3rd as strong as the neo I use) because on testing I found I can calibrate a wider distance from fully closed to fully open, allowing easier access to the intermediate hat openings. The neo gave me very little opening with the hat otherwise it wouldnt calibrate, and so it was a pain to play something like 20% open. You hit the hat and the downward strike closes it, and cuts the sound abruptly... but I digress.

If you are using Jmans box and magnet (or similar), have turned down the pad sensitivity, and have calibrated it well, then the VH-11 should give you reliable zone 8 (edge) hits every time. If not, then I would guess either the edge switch in your cymbal is faulty, or (more likely) you have a bad cable or jack connector.

ANGR77

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Re: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2015, 12:15:47 AM »
Thanks Coda!

I have no doubts that VH-11 will separate the bow/edge 100 % right every time. This works in my setup. But how does your original 2Box hihat do it? My original 2Box hihat is hard to trigger for an edge hit...and that is by design for an obvious reason...

CODA what happens in your VH-11 implementation...if you press down the pedal to close and at the same time manually press the edge switch between your thumb and the other finger (make a choke)...and at the same time takes a look on the hihat calibration page on your 2Box device....

What do you see?

Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystallite, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

Coda

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Re: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2015, 12:11:53 PM »
Sorry, I never had any 2box gear except the module.

My kit is in parts right now (just got back from church service) so I won't be able to do your experiment until later tomorrow or maybe tomorrow. Sorry. Hopefully someone else will read this and do it before I can.

ANGR77

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Re: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2015, 04:12:35 PM »
Hi!

IF you get a chance to check...I am very interested in the result. :-)


Best regards

Angr77
Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystallite, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

Coda

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Re: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2015, 07:15:03 PM »
Very interesting...

The animation of the hat open-close stops while the cymbal is choked. Once you let go, the hat picture shows the real place where the hat is.

Logically this is the only thing which could happen, as the hall position sensor is on the ring circuit, same as the edge switch.

ANGR77

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Re: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2015, 11:03:13 PM »
Thanks Coda!

If you only do a choke...and at the same time have the pedal in down position...will the hihat animation open?

With a 2Box original hihat, it seems like a choke is impossible to perform based on the mechanical design. My idea is that when using a Roland VH-11...the edge triggering is maybe a bit too easy to fire compared to 2box standard hi-hat. Knowing these facts...it could be the thing that it sometimes misfiring/mistriggering. Or?

Best regards

Angr77
Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystallite, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

Coda

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Re: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 09:22:26 AM »
If you only do a choke...and at the same time have the pedal in down position...will the hihat animation open?
Nothing happens, icon stays closed. I'm assuming you mean put the pedal down, icon is closed, choke the hat. Not trying to do it simultaneously.

Quote
With a 2Box original hihat, it seems like a choke is impossible to perform based on the mechanical design. My idea is that when using a Roland VH-11...the edge triggering is maybe a bit too easy to fire compared to 2box standard hi-hat. Knowing these facts...it could be the thing that it sometimes misfiring/mistriggering. Or?
Keeping in mind I've never had or seen a 2box hat, this is just my conclusions from what I've read coupled with my experiences of previous modules (td9-vh11) 2box with vh11 and building my own hats and cymbals. Plus I'm somewhat of an electronics engineer... I don't think the 2box hat system was designed to be chokeable unlike the Roland, because it's obvious to me that the edge switch was not designed to be grabbed by hand, but just hit with sticks.

I just went back to the kit to do some more experimentation. This time I put on the phones. I found:
  • Whatever position you have the hat before you 'choke', that's where it stays until you release the choke.
  • When you release the choke it jumps to the real position. If this is closed when it was open before, you'll get a high velocity footsplash.
  • During the choke, hitting anywhere on the pad results in a zone 8 (edge) hit.

If you cannot get a 100% reliable edge hit on a hat, then it may be that some of the teeth inside which make the switch have broken or become fatigued. That's assuming you don't have a fault with your sensor box or the magnet is not too strong/weak.

ANGR77

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Re: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 08:01:51 PM »
Many thanks Coda for sharing the results! True, the 2Box HH is not chokable.

I think based on your info that I cracked the last part on my system. (I am trying something new here)

Best regards

Angr77
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 08:11:53 PM by ANGR77 »
Sonor Safari, Pearl Crystallite, Zourman Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, ATV hh, KT-10, 14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

Coda

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Re: A question for you ones that have done hihat mod!
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 08:40:00 PM »
Intriguing, let me know what you come up with :-)