Author Topic: DIY cymbal  (Read 1507 times)

InTheBox

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DIY cymbal
« on: May 27, 2015, 07:03:00 PM »
I'm hoping someone can help me out a bit here :D

I'm thinking about making a small e-cymbal from a cracked cymbal I cut down to size. The cymbal will be about 10" big, and I will split one of the tom pads to connect it. It will be used for splash sounds mainly.

Any suggestions about piezo placement? I know the module has CyCup and CyEdge settings, but is one of them preferable?

Noise is also a concern for me, so I'd also like some recommendations about what to cover the cymbal with. I'd like something that mutes the stick sound enough and goes well visually with the normal 2box cymbals.

Cheers
Piezo? What piezo?

edtc

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2015, 12:23:57 AM »
any little piezo placed in the cup  will do the trick ... if the cup is too small , place it where you can ...

Then stick some rubber or something to dampen the cymbal , so it wont resonate , giving the sensor a clean and sharp signal ... and voila ... no rocket science  ...:)

dont worry about cycup , this is only for the cymbals inputs , not when you want to split a tom input ...

... to use it on a cymbal in a s a 3 zone  trigger  , you ll have to build a switch sensor for the edge ,and that s not easy as sticking a piezo where Jman could tell you  ;) ....

HAVE FUN  :patbat2box:




mvdput

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 08:31:24 PM »
... to use it on a cymbal in a s a 3 zone  trigger  , you ll have to build a switch sensor for the edge ,and that s not easy as sticking a piezo where Jman could tell you  ;) ....

HAVE FUN  :patbat2box:

How does this switch sensor work for the edge sound? I know a lot of people have made some DIY cymbal with a switch, but I can't seem to find any details other than the Myrk choke-switch.

I want to add one extra triggered cymbal to my set from a real cymbal.

mvdput

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 09:51:17 PM »
How does this switch sensor work for the edge sound? I know a lot of people have made some DIY cymbal with a switch, but I can't seem to find any details other than the Myrk choke-switch.

I want to add one extra triggered cymbal to my set from a real cymbal.

I think I already found the answer. It should probably work with what they call the KRC switch:
https://www.vdrums.com/forum/advanced/diy/28252-building-keith-raper-s-circuit
A nice one to try out on a real cymbal.

paulf707

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2018, 08:32:55 AM »
I've been thinking about something similar. I am torn between using the Raper circuit and losing one of the edge triggers on a cymbal (and using the splash cymbal and Raper circuit to trigger it), or losing a Tom rim and triggering the splash from there.
The first option makes the sound management more complex (I'd have to build new SND files with the splash sounds on the edge) and there would be no way to adjust relative volumes from the module (I'd have to go back to the DSND and recompile it).
However i do like (and use) the tom rims, and i feel i would miss those more than some of the cymbal edges (especially the ride edge - I really find that distracting / annoying on many samples - in fact i have rebuilt a number of stock ride DSNDs with the edge crash replaced with the bow sound because of this).

But at least it's good to have options - too many options is far better than no options 😀

ANGR77

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2018, 09:43:38 PM »
Hi!

I recently helped a customer and custom designed a new kind to piezo to switch converter...(some similarities with the quite generic KRC stuff but with some design improvements + newer and more sensitive components)

The customer got very happy with the result...using a dual piezo+switch cymbal against his TD-12 for three zone rides.

Best regards

Anders / www.zourman.com

« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 09:45:33 PM by ANGR77 »
Sonor Force Stage 2007 + Safari, Quartz Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, KT-10, CY-12/14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

welshsteve

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 10:53:58 PM »
Hi!

I recently helped a customer and custom designed a new kind to piezo to switch converter...(some similarities with the quite generic KRC stuff but with some design improvements + newer and more sensitive components)

The customer got very happy with the result...using a dual piezo+switch cymbal against his TD-12 for three zone rides.

Best regards

Anders / www.zourman.com

Is that to convert an acoustic cymbal?

paulf707

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2018, 05:57:07 AM »
I recently helped a customer and custom designed a new kind to piezo to switch converter...(some similarities with the quite generic KRC stuff but with some design improvements + newer and more sensitive components)

Would this circuit be suitable for connecting two 2Box cymbals to a single D5 cymbal input (losing the edge sensors and using them both as simple single zone cymbals)?

Is this something you would be prepared to sell/share?

ANGR77

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2018, 06:16:02 AM »
Is that to convert an acoustic cymbal?

It was either a Jobeky reel feel or diy silent cymbal...I don’t exactly recall. Customer was using both a td-12 and a td-20 which requires a piezo/switch/switch implementation for their three zone rides,

My idea in general by helping this customer was that a dual piezo on the same small e-cymbal surface are very hard to control. Both piezo’s will give signal regardless where you hit. And on Roland you have no option...you need a piezo/switch/switch implementation.

Going the piezo to switch conversation route...then you are able to control and set the threshold in a better way ... when the bell switch will fires.

It worked out extremely well!

Best regards

Anders / www.zourman.com

« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 06:22:10 AM by ANGR77 »
Sonor Force Stage 2007 + Safari, Quartz Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, KT-10, CY-12/14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

ANGR77

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2018, 12:59:02 PM »
Would this circuit be suitable for connecting two 2Box cymbals to a single D5 cymbal input (losing the edge sensors and using them both as simple single zone cymbals)?

Is this something you would be prepared to sell/share?

Hi! Hmm...you can do this only with a split cable. No circuit requried.

For my piezo 2 switch hack...we will see if I do a product of it. I do see a personal need to create a solution for these dual Piezo cymbals...together with my Ride conversation module to adopt the signal to 2box 3 zone format. Another idea to utilize piezo to switch functionality is to use dual piezo pads + BT1 and combine the signal for the DrumIt Three's 3 zone snare implementation. (Which requires a Piezo/Switch/Switch implementation)

Best Regards

Anders / www.zourman.com
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 06:07:58 AM by ANGR77 »
Sonor Force Stage 2007 + Safari, Quartz Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, KT-10, CY-12/14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

paulf707

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2018, 07:29:59 AM »
Hi! Hmm...you can do this only with a split cable. No circuit required.

Anders - I thought the 2box cymbals were piezo-switch? To get the edge sound you'd need a piezo trigger signal, and to activate the switch.... So that's why I thought I'd need the Raper circuit or something similar?

If I'm wrong and I can do this with a split cable then I'd be really pleased.....

ANGR77

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2018, 07:53:11 PM »
The 2box cymbals is of the type piezo/switch...

But running on bios 1.32...(I think it even worked with previous versions) you can change a cymbal input (or any other input) to support dual piezos by just selecting PadPP instead of CYPSV etc .(dual piezos). Then you could just pick the selected cymbal sounds for each piezo. (Head + Rim)

Best regards

Anders / www.zourman.com
Sonor Force Stage 2007 + Safari, Quartz Triggers, Roland & Triggera, 2box Cymbals & HH, RT-10, KT-10, BT-1, VH-11/12/13, KT-10, CY-12/14C/13R/15R, MegaDRUM, 2Box 5 & 3, DD4SE, Pearl ButtKicker Addictive Drums 2.1.7, all ADPaks moved to 2box(SDSE) Zourman Conversion Gears www.zourman.com

paulf707

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 06:08:17 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thanks Anders -  that's great news - I never thought/realised that the inputs were that flexible!
The 2Box just keeps getting better and better  :patbat2box:

paulf707

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2018, 07:20:02 AM »
Just had a quick try of this…… PadPP works but plays the 'bell' sample across the whole cymbal - however you can then select the 'Sound' setting in the kit and then choose the edge or bow sound to be played.

Like I said above - the amount of flexibility built into this system continues to amaze me.... :D

paulf707

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Re: DIY cymbal
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2018, 02:36:16 PM »
Just looking at this again, and although you can set a Cymbal input to be PadPP, I can't find any way for it to recognise the rim trigger signal. Pressing 'More' and the Cym1 button doesn't give any options for additional trigger settings or sounds, so I'm thinking that although it can be used as a pad input, it can only be a mono pad..... :-[
Looks like I'm going to have to go the more traditional route and split the tom rim inputs off....