Hole pattern GEN16 cymbals

[Murgen]

From Julia on the gen16 forum:

Here is the background on the hole pattern:

http://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/nature-golden-ratio-fibonacci.html

[norseman]

Cute.

Julia is a very nice person indeed.

I still managed to break two 13" hats without playing too hard. Golden Ratio or not. Now I only play the hats on the edge. Either with stick tip or shoulder because the edge has no holes.

[fulrmr]

Cute.

Julia is a very nice person indeed.

I still managed to break two 13" hats without playing too hard. Golden Ratio or not. Now I only play the hats on the edge. Either with stick tip or shoulder because the edge has no holes.

Indeed she is.

You must be a beast LOL!  I've had mine for years and never had any problems.

[norseman]

Indeed she is.

You must be a beast LOL!  I've had mine for years and never had any problems.

When I saw the original review of Gen16 by that 14/17 year something I was scared. He literally splintered the 14 inch hats in 2.

I barely made some cracks.

So far so good.


The ride has never had any problems.

[Steve]

Although they play really nice I cannot understand how anyone would buy these for the sound module, I find the sound to be the most unnatural cymbal sound ever with an intolerable high frequency at the tail end of each strike  Someone educate me on my ignorance but I have never heard anything good on you tube and I fiddled with ever parameter at the music store.

[fulrmr]

Although they play really nice I cannot understand how anyone would buy these for the sound module, I find the sound to be the most unnatural cymbal sound ever with an intolerable high frequency at the tail end of each strike  Someone educate me on my ignorance but I have never heard anything good on you tube and I fiddled with ever parameter at the music store.

These cymbals come with a preconceived notion that are exactly like traditional cymbals, while the reality is that one must spend many hours with the Access Tool to achieve anything remotely close to a traditional tone, especially with the Nickel series. The Buffed Bronze is said to be much warmer and easier to achieve this quality. I have found over the years that all cymbal tones, even traditional Acoustic cymbal tones, are very subjective to the individuals own tastes and needs. These are no different. IMHO these are great cymbals when approaching them for what they truly are.....tools. I find them to be great FX cymbals as is and an excellent platform in which to convert for triggering. Also IMO the Hats/Digital Cymbal Processor(DCP) and Direct Source(DS) pickup combo are the shining star of this system no matter what series, BB or Nickel, that one might choose. You can't beat the way these things feel when played in comparison to rubber or plastic. These are just one solution closer to one of the resounding continuous complaints that most drummers have had against electronic drums...the response and feel of the cymbal pads. These begin to narrow this gap, but for the most part are not plug and play for everyone. As said, one will most likely have to spend a lot of time with the software(Access Tool) to tailor tones that suit ones own ear.

[Steve]

These cymbals come with a preconceived notion that are exactly like traditional cymbals, while the reality is that one must spend many hours with the Access Tool to achieve anything remotely close to a traditional tone, especially with the Nickel series.  The Buffed Bronze is said to be much warmer and easier to achieve this quality. I have found over the years that all cymbal tones, even traditional Acoustic cymbal tones, are very subjective to the individuals own tastes and needs. These are no different. IMHO these are great cymbals when approaching them for what they truly are.....tools. I find them to be great FX cymbals as is and an excellent platform in which to convert for triggering. Also IMO the Hats/Digital Cymbal Processor(DCP) and Direct Source(DS) pickup combo are the shining star of this system no matter what series, BB or Nickel, that one might choose. You can't beat the way these things feel when played in comparison to rubber or plastic. These are just one solution closer to one of the resounding continuous complaints that most drummers have had against electronic drums...the response and feel of the cymbal pads. These begin to narrow this gap, but for the most part are not plug and play for everyone. As said, one will most likely have to spend a lot of time with the software(Access Tool) to tailor tones that suit ones own ear.

"while the reality is that one must spend many hours with the Access Tool to achieve anything remotely close to a traditional tone, especially with the Nickel series." 

I think it is still remote no matter how many hours.

"I find them to be great FX cymbals as is and an excellent platform in which to convert for triggering. Also IMO the Hats/Digital Cymbal Processor(DCP) and Direct Source(DS) pickup combo are the shining star of this system no matter what series, BB or Nickel, that one might choose."

Sound like what an endorser would say, kind of expensive for just FX cymbals to enhance a kit. FX seems to be the cop out as these seem to have been rushed  to market in the hope they could improved the sound of them in time with but have failed.


You can't beat the way these things feel when played in comparison to rubber or plastic. These are just one solution closer to one of the resounding continuous complaints that most drummers have had against electronic drums...

Totally agree, just wish we were there instead of closer. They feel amazing and respond great just the sound...., and that is what upsets me so much as they were the product I really wanted. I now chase VST and software to create samples but without hope of playing soft on a bell and getting a bell sound. Gen-16 was the worst tease for me.  Using Jman's cymbal triggers on real cymbals is the best alternative so far, my converted Paiste ride is nice to play on but I pray they get some usable sounds in the Gen 16.

[fulrmr]

"while the reality is that one must spend many hours with the Access Tool to achieve anything remotely close to a traditional tone, especially with the Nickel series." 

I think it is still remote no matter how many hours.

hehehe......this system is not for everyone for sure but most folks that haven't spent the time think the same thing.

"I find them to be great FX cymbals as is and an excellent platform in which to convert for triggering. Also IMO the Hats/Digital Cymbal Processor(DCP) and Direct Source(DS) pickup combo are the shining star of this system no matter what series, BB or Nickel, that one might choose."

Sound like what an endorser would say, kind of expensive for just FX cymbals to enhance a kit. FX seems to be the cop out as these seem to have been rushed  to market in the hope they could improved the sound of them in time with but have failed.

Oh I'm not an "endorser" in fact I was one of the loudest opponents and nay sayers of these when they first came out. That is until I heard a very intriguing pit percussion video and the wonderful FX that the artist was creating. Very beautiful and appropriate for the composition. That's when I started looking into the Nickel series seriously and even though most everything else I heard was awful I did hear a few tones from the Hats that I though were useable. So I dove in. Besides, I really liked the look and figured I'd just convert them if all else failed.

With that said......Hate the crashes...period. Never found any tones I could live with. Mine are converted. Some with Jman's kits and some with my own. The ride was problematic as I could find ride tones and bell tones I liked...but never on the same setting together, especially on the 18". So I have more than one (some converted..some not) plus a 20" also. The china and splash are acceptable after using the Access Tool to tweak to my liking for the FX. Ahhhh...but the hats however are freaking awesome! I could care less about "recreating" a certain brand or series of acoustic this or that. If I want something like that I'll either buy one or I'll trigger it with the 2Box. I just play with the Access Tool until I find what I like that mimics a tone that I feel is versatile enough to pass the test of whatever genre I'm playing. I love the feel, look and the low volume attributes of these. Oh and as far as expense....these are no more expensive than any of the other toys or tools we bleed out cash for just because we want it. So overall, I don't think they "failed"...I think they produced the product that they intended and the only failure here is that of them not living up to our preconceived expectations. Not really much different than most of the public's first reaction of disappointment to a new module that doesn't seem to "wow" us with miraculous new innovations. Frankly the 2Box didn't have much "wow factor" for me when I bought my first one. It was only after spending lots of time with it side by side with the TD-30 for a year that I realized what a gem it really was...and for half the price! I won't even get into how high the bar was set after using converted VST samples instead of just the stock kits that came with it.

Anyway...back to the Gen's. If you ever do decide to ease into this system, you would probly be better satisfied with the Buffed Bronze series as the tones that I have heard are much warmer and more "traditional" sounding than their predecessors. However, as discerning and particular as it sounds like you may be, you will still most likely want to spend an excessive amount of hours within the Access Tool just to get the most out of this sysyem for your own ears. If you don't do this...you will still probly be a bit under whelmed by them.

[digitalDrummer]

Another aspect to keep in mind is pickup placement. As I found in my latest test - acosutic cymbals and DS pickups, placement can make the world of difference. Crashes and smaller cymbals need the pickup on or near the bell.