Author Topic: Hot cymbals  (Read 6684 times)

docadiddle

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Hot cymbals
« on: June 09, 2014, 02:32:46 PM »
Good afternoon all

Still getting to know my 2Box (day 17) but absolutely loving it. My only real gripe so far is that it seems far too easy to trigger an unwanted and very loud edge crash sound on both the ride and the crash cymbals. The bow sounds are generally nice and dynamics are reproduced quite well but it seems that unwanted edge sounds come along too easily. I'm not sure if this is something which others have found and would be grateful for any suggestions as to how it might be overcome by altering the module setup.

Thanks in advance.

Tim

docadiddle

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2014, 02:28:01 PM »
It's rather quiet on here.
Anyone any ideas?

Drum2

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2014, 03:31:43 PM »
You could try to lift the rubber edge and take a look for the plastic edge trim It could be slipped off.

docadiddle

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2014, 09:37:25 PM »
Thanks drum2, I'll check that out.

StudioG4

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2014, 01:54:21 AM »
Hi all, I'm not using the stock 2Box cymbals (using a Jman hybrid) and have also noticed a very major inconsistency with the cymbals from kit to kit. Its especially noticeable with the rides. I could have the exact same dsnd in 2 different kits and there will be triggering/response differences. I have also had the occurance of hitting a crash and it not being there at first hit.
I'm experimenting with the possibility that the issue may be with the module not accurately interpreting the 32gb Lexar Pro memory (from the approved list).
I previously posted a question regarding the long (relative) load time when switching from kit to kit and have since found that it is much faster when experimenting with the original 4gb card. I am next going to try an 8gb card to see the results.
Anyone want to chime in on this?
Thanks. Tony G

hemiboy

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2014, 03:38:05 AM »
Wow, I had the exact opposite experience with Jman's  32 gig card and cymbal triggers. If anything, they trigger better than with the 4 gig card if you can get better triggering than perfect. I couldn't be any happier and so glad I didn't mess around with the 2 box cymbals and hi hat and went right to Jman's! No lag, no inconsistencies from kit to kit, everything working fine! Sorry to hear you guys are having some issues. Hope your modules are okay!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 03:49:20 AM by hemiboy »

Jman

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2014, 05:57:29 AM »
I'm experimenting with the possibility that the issue may be with the module not accurately interpreting the 32gb Lexar Pro memory (from the approved list).
I previously posted a question regarding the long (relative) load time when switching from kit to kit and have since found that it is much faster when experimenting with the original 4gb card. I am next going to try an 8gb card to see the results.
Anyone want to chime in on this?
Thanks. Tony G
I wonder if the Lexar card you picked up is genuine? There have been a lot of fake cards out there. I bought one once and posted on it here:  http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1136.90
The problem you describe does seem like it is related to the card. Especially if the symptoms are not present when using the 4GB original card.
I have been using genuine 32GB Lexar Professional 133X cards for years as well as the genuine PNY 32GB Professional card from that thread and have never experienced anything like that. One thing I am careful about is buying only in a sealed factory package.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 06:02:45 AM by Jman »
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StudioG4

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2014, 03:40:23 PM »
I wonder if the Lexar card you picked up is genuine? There have been a lot of fake cards out there. I bought one once and posted on it here:  http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php?topic=1136.90
The problem you describe does seem like it is related to the card. Especially if the symptoms are not present when using the 4GB original card.
I have been using genuine 32GB Lexar Professional 133X cards for years as well as the genuine PNY 32GB Professional card from that thread and have never experienced anything like that. One thing I am careful about is buying only in a sealed factory package.
Yes, all my Lexar cards are genuine (all came in sealed packaging) per recommendation. I have 3 of the 32GB Lexar Professional 133X cards and now an 8GB of the same type. My findings at boot up are that my original 2Box 4GB Kingston (with 3.29GB material) boots at 4.8 seconds, the 8GB Lexar (with 7GB material) boots at 5.2 seconds (and both of these 2 change and load kits very quickly) and 2 of the 32GB cards (with 11GB of material) boot at 8 seconds and 1 of the 32GB cards (with 3.29GBmaterial) boots at 7 sec.
So what does this all mean? The smaller size cards boot much faster and load a kit faster when dialed in although, I still have drop outs (hitting a cymbal sometimes produces nothing and then it does on the next consecutive hit) but I have not noticed any latency thus far. I'm next going to try a 16GB card.

Jman

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2014, 12:12:32 AM »
Yes, all my Lexar cards are genuine (all came in sealed packaging) per recommendation. I have 3 of the 32GB Lexar Professional 133X cards and now an 8GB of the same type. My findings at boot up are that my original 2Box 4GB Kingston (with 3.29GB material) boots at 4.8 seconds, the 8GB Lexar (with 7GB material) boots at 5.2 seconds (and both of these 2 change and load kits very quickly) and 2 of the 32GB cards (with 11GB of material) boot at 8 seconds and 1 of the 32GB cards (with 3.29GBmaterial) boots at 7 sec.
So what does this all mean? The smaller size cards boot much faster and load a kit faster when dialed in although, I still have drop outs (hitting a cymbal sometimes produces nothing and then it does on the next consecutive hit) but I have not noticed any latency thus far. I'm next going to try a 16GB card.
Hi Tony: Yes, boot time will prolly be a second or 2 faster with the smaller cards but I have a bunch of the PNY and the Lexar cards loaded to full capacity or very close to full capacity and they still play without latency, over months/years of using them.
I doubt the drop out you mention is because of the card. You might want to check your crosstalk settings to start with, and look at and listen to every hit/sample on your dsnd (examine the dsnd in DSoundTool) to be sure you don't have muted or empty hit samples in it. I have seen dsnds that had double hits in them and also silent hits before, that can happen when building them. When that happens, it feels like your hardware is having problems, but really it is problems with the instrument sample. Beyond that, if it is just one of the cymbals, switch it with another to check if the result is the same.
I could tell you where to stick that piezo! :D ;)
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StudioG4

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2014, 05:35:07 PM »
So here's an update. I've been gigging every weekend since my last post and here's latest.
Tried the Lexar pro cards (32g, 16g, and 8gig) and behavior is consistent from card to card. Problem is still with cymbals. In the practice studio I rarely lose the cymbal crash hits or the ride but when I'm at a gig, it happens regularly. I have swapped out the cymbals and the problem does not follow the cymbals so its apparently NOT a hardware problem. My Cym1 always performs flawlessly but Cym2(ride) and Cym3 have the drop outs. I'm thinking this must be a vibration problem since last night we played on a portable stage which was fairly bouncy and I was left with one functional cymbal (Cym1). I do not have any crosstalk suppression on any of my trigger inputs. Could there be something that I am missing? I am so frustrated with this situation that I am considering the Gen16's although the expense and sound quality (wish I could find someplace to demo them here in NY but...)doesn't really appeal to me. Sending the 2box unit in for repairs is also not an option since I can't be without it due to my active calendar.
Any/all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Tony G

Murgen

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2014, 05:44:12 PM »
So here's an update. I've been gigging every weekend since my last post and here's latest.
Tried the Lexar pro cards (32g, 16g, and 8gig) and behavior is consistent from card to card. Problem is still with cymbals. In the practice studio I rarely lose the cymbal crash hits or the ride but when I'm at a gig, it happens regularly. I have swapped out the cymbals and the problem does not follow the cymbals so its apparently NOT a hardware problem. My Cym1 always performs flawlessly but Cym2(ride) and Cym3 have the drop outs. I'm thinking this must be a vibration problem since last night we played on a portable stage which was fairly bouncy and I was left with one functional cymbal (Cym1). I do not have any crosstalk suppression on any of my trigger inputs. Could there be something that I am missing? I am so frustrated with this situation that I am considering the Gen16's although the expense and sound quality (wish I could find someplace to demo them here in NY but...)doesn't really appeal to me. Sending the 2box unit in for repairs is also not an option since I can't be without it due to my active calendar.
Any/all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Tony G

Try new cables between 2Box and cymbals, might solve the issues.
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Jim Marshall, Lord of Loud, inventor of the Marshall amps was a drummer too ...

StudioG4

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 06:10:35 PM »
Murgen, I wish it could be that easy. I've made all my cables for years and it was one of the first things I checked but thanks for your suggestion.

Jman

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2014, 06:37:40 PM »
So here's an update. I've been gigging every weekend since my last post and here's latest.
Tried the Lexar pro cards (32g, 16g, and 8gig) and behavior is consistent from card to card. Problem is still with cymbals. In the practice studio I rarely lose the cymbal crash hits or the ride but when I'm at a gig, it happens regularly. I have swapped out the cymbals and the problem does not follow the cymbals so its apparently NOT a hardware problem. My Cym1 always performs flawlessly but Cym2(ride) and Cym3 have the drop outs. I'm thinking this must be a vibration problem since last night we played on a portable stage which was fairly bouncy and I was left with one functional cymbal (Cym1). I do not have any crosstalk suppression on any of my trigger inputs. Could there be something that I am missing? Tony G
I think you are right about vibration causing the problem. This is very likely a crosstalk problem. Since this is rarely happening at rehearsal no doubt there is more vibration/crosstalk occurring at gigs. Your experience with the bigger problem on the wobbling stage probably confirms this. Since you say you have no crosstalk set on any input I would guess cymbal 2 is getting cut out because something nearby is getting so much vibration it is cancelling out your ride hits. If you can figure out what drum or drums is causing this you should be able to solve the problem. Since it is at gigs it is a little harder to determine quickly, but one way would be to raise the crosstalk setting very high on everything except the cymbal 2, then test. Drop the crosstalk back down to 0 on each instrument one at a time until you find the culprit. Also you might want to go back through each of your drums, and check your Gain and Threshold. You only want the Gain high enough so your hardest hits peak the velocity meter. Threshold you want to raise as much as you can so that your lowest hits are still detected, but if the threshold is TOO low every stage vibration will be detected. So you want threshold only as low as needed for your light hits. Raise the threshold on a drum little by little until your light hits are not detected, then lower it a little at a time till they are detected again, and leave it at that.

The threshold, gain and crosstalk settings are most likely the key to this. Hope it helps, Jerry
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StudioG4

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2014, 07:11:53 PM »
Thanks Jman, I will give this a try and report.

Jman

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Re: Hot cymbals
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2014, 09:40:32 PM »
As I mentioned above: Too high of gain and/or too low of threshold on one or more of the pads would be something to look into. The lowest threshold setting is -48, the highest is -18. If you have pads close to the lowest setting you might want to look at those first.  From the manual:
Low Threshold
The lower you set this value, the higher is the risk of double-trigger impulses and crosstalk.
I could tell you where to stick that piezo! :D ;)
http://stealthdrums.com/