Huge EZdrummer problems

[monodna]

Hi people!

I just received my set 4 days ago, and so far I'm very happy. I have only played with the onboard sounds so far, been tweaking settings and stuff and generally getting it to sound very cool. But one thing I'm kind of pissed of about, is the (lack of) compatibility with EZdrummer. I was really looking forward to using EZdrummer for multi-track recording in Reaper or Garageband, but I cannot get it to work properly. The problem is that the MIDI mapping is completely off. I know that the MIDI notes can be changed, but there is absolutely no correlation between the Toontrack MIDI maps and the supposedly corresponding notes on the 2box module. I have read that the notes on the 2box could be an octave off, but even so I can still make no sense of it. I have managed to setup the snare, toms, kick and ride (even with the bell), but hihat and crashes are no go... What is really annoying is that the Alesis DM10 was more or less plug and play and that was 1/3 of the price of the 2box.. (granted it sucked in other aspects )
I have not been able to find anything anywhere that can help me, so I'm looking to you people and crossing my fingers!!!

Best regards

Claus

[Jovato]

Surely EZ drummer allows you to map the MIDI notes to the standard 2Box ones.  Most any VST I have ever used has had a learn mode.  Much easier to map the software to the module than the other way around. 

[digitalDrummer]

From memory, EZdrummer does not have MIDI mapping since it is a scaled back version of SD2.
Have you checked on the Toontrack forum?

[fishmonkey]

that is correct, you cannot change the MIDI assignments in EZdrummer, see here:

http://www.vettaville.com/ezdrummer_midi_keyboard_layout.htm

you will need to change the MIDI notes in the 2Box module to match up with the pre-defined EZdrummer ones instead...

another thing to watch out for is the way that the hi-hat pedal height is transmitted. in earlier versions of the 2Box firmware, the pedal height controller messages were only sent out immediately proceeding a note on (i.e. when you hit the cymbal), similar to the way Roland TD20 modules work. looking at the manual for firmware version 1.24, it seems that you can now choose for the pedal height to be sent continuously. this makes it easier for most drum software to trigger the hi-hat properly, however it does generate more MIDI data.

[monodna]

Yeah, I have tried changing notes for a couple of hours yesterday... Thing is, the midi notes in Toontracks documentation does not correspond to the notes in the 2box. For instance, if Toontrack says the ride bow is no. 39 (I don't remember the actual number) and I dial in 2box to no. 39, I don't get a ride, but, say, a crash. As I understand it, if you have a 4 zone pad (like the ride) 2box uses 4 subsequent midi-notes for that pad, and I actually did manage to find the right note for the ride by trial and error. But that method doesn't work for the crash cymbals - if I find a crash note then the other zone is a tom or kick or whatever...

I don't know if Toontrack or 2box is to blame for this discrepancy between notes, but it is really a huge amount of work trying to dial in all of these notes by trial and error, and I can't even begin to imagine the problems I'm going to run into when it's the hihats turn... 

[digitalDrummer]

The simple solution - but not inexpensive - is to upgrade to SD2, which has editable midi mapping and midi learn.

[espen]

In Reaper, there is a a built-in plugin called MIDI_Keymap. I use that with EZdrummer to adjust the right notes. It's a bit clumsy as you have to do the changes into .txt file which is in Reaper/Data -folder. But you have to do it just once. Instructions: http://amano-guitar.blogspot.fi/2012/03/using-reaper-midikeymap.html

[monodna]

@espen:

Thanks! I'll have to give that a try when I come home tonight!! Did you get everything to work properly?


Claus

[digitalDrummer]

In Reaper, there is a a built-in plugin called MIDI_Keymap. I use that with EZdrummer to adjust the right notes. It's a bit clumsy as you have to do the changes into .txt file which is in Reaper/Data -folder. But you have to do it just once. Instructions: http://amano-guitar.blogspot.fi/2012/03/using-reaper-midikeymap.html

Maybe you can share your map with the OP?

[espen]

@espen:

Thanks! I'll have to give that a try when I come home tonight!! Did you get everything to work properly?


Claus

Yes. Everything work properly. Hihat control articulations (continuous tip, edge and foot chick) in EZX libraries are somewhere around MIDI notes  6 to 10 even thought it is not said in any of Toontrack's MIDI mappings as they usually start at MIDI note above 20. Cymbal chokes with some libraries are problematic  because the module does not send aftertouch messages. You can choose right note for choke but usually the sample in that way is hit+choke. So, the response is not very natural.

I use trigger type CymEdg for my all cymbals (two crashes and ride). At least with that type the MIDI notes are sequentially so that tip is the first (that you can see in the UNIT page in the module), edge is the next and choke is the third. I actually don't know how this works with 3-zone cymbals.

Maybe you can share your map with the OP?

Yes I can. However, I have adjusted my MIDI notes in the module so that kick is number 1, sanre head is number 2, snare rim numer 3 etc... These can be anything between 1-127, obviously.
This is an example how i've done my mapping. Hope it explains this:

Drum    ModuleOUT=KeymapIN  KeymapOUT=EZDrummerIN
Kick                     1                                      36
Snare                  2                                      38
Rim                      3                                      40
Xstick                  4                                      37
Tom1                   5                                      48
Tom2                   6                                      47
Tom3                   7                                      45
Tom4                   8                                      43

These are general between different EZXs. Cymbals do vary more based on the ezx. Just look the right notes from the mapping.

And one more thing. You can use the same note number as many times you want. I.e., you can put the same note (e.g., 57) for crash tip and edge.

[monodna]

@espen:

That is very effing awesome! Can't wait to try it!!

Thanks again!

[monodna]

I just had a go at this, and it works like a charm! You can even add all 8 tracks from ezdrummer, and only have the midi-map on the mastertrack, so that you can mix the individual tracks differently. And since the mapping is based on a .txt you can have a different .txt for each drumkit in ezdrummer... Who needs superior drummer?!? This is probably the best workaround I could have hoped for. Thank you very much! 

Only one little thing: The triggers seem much more sensitive in ezdrummer. Is there any way around except changing all the settings in the 2box? I imagine I'd still want to use the onboard sounds, and changing these values back and forth everytime would be a pain...

[fishmonkey]

you can deal with that by using a program or MIDI plug-in that imposes a different velocity curve on the notes. i don't use Reaper, but i would guess that it has one.

[monodna]

@fishmonkey
I'll give it a try, thanks!!


Claus

[Devious123]

Yes. Everything work properly. Hihat control articulations (continuous tip, edge and foot chick) in EZX libraries are somewhere around MIDI notes  6 to 10 even thought it is not said in any of Toontrack's MIDI mappings as they usually start at MIDI note above 20. Cymbal chokes with some libraries are problematic  because the module does not send aftertouch messages. You can choose right note for choke but usually the sample in that way is hit+choke. So, the response is not very natural.

I use trigger type CymEdg for my all cymbals (two crashes and ride). At least with that type the MIDI notes are sequentially so that tip is the first (that you can see in the UNIT page in the module), edge is the next and choke is the third. I actually don't know how this works with 3-zone cymbals.

I just got routings using the setup through Reaper using the JS midi keymaps, which is not named JS Midi key to map. I tried us ing your CymEdge to fix the goofiness, but it didn't work with the 3 zone cymbal. It basically just sounded the what ever note you routed it to in EzDrummer. I'm not sure how you could fix this. The one thing i did do is just route the same crash note to choke, which isn't a good solution, because if if you choke it, it triggers a crash sound. Another option I'm considering, is just record the cymbals in my mixer only, then use everything else in EzDrummer, on another channel. Everything then would be routed mixed together with my x32 interface. I'd rather not have to do it this way.

I'm curious would this be a problem with other drum vst programs. What exactly does having after touch message do, and how could that fix this issue?

I was wondering what note numbers triggered in EzDrummer for Hi Hats? There is a really long list of sounds you can trigger for a hi hat.