As requested here is a simple outline of how SD 2.0 can be used to generate DSND files for the 2box, for folks
like myself who are not familiar with this kind of gear. I barely know what I'm talking about 8) so please feel
free to correct me, make suggestions etc etc. It's just really to give people a feel for how easy it is to do,
and maybe to get you started.
YOU WILL NEED:
SD 2.0 installed on your computer along with Solo and EZplayerPro, the last two come free with SD.
The DSoundTool which Louis built, available from shortestpath.de.
And that's it, nothing else.
First of all use the DSoundTool to export a midi file, any note, any channel, doesn't matter.
Then:
1) Open Solo and choose SD.
2) In main window ("Construction") right click an instrument, eg snare, to select it --blue highlight
indicates selection.
3) Bottom right, make sure you have the correct "articulation" (ie the one you want) selected, eg Centre Hit
maybe for a snare, or eg Closed Tip for a hat.
4) To left of that, in Voice & Layer, may as well choose "Unlimited"
Tune up the instrument to sound how you want it, for instance -
5) Play around with "Envelope" (on right side of the Construction window)
6) Use EZ mixer or go to Mixer page, tune in ambient levels, overheads, etc
7) So drum is set up (roughly). Open EZplayer [Solo menu bar, Play style button, click].
8. In top half of EZp window, browse to locate the midi file. Don't fret about
which note/instrument/channel it is, see below.
9) Make sure you can play it, and get some sounds coming out. Stop it. By default the
SD randomizing function(s) are on - the number of samples, the dynamic range, the amount
of variation at a given level, these are all things we're all going to want to decide for ourselves
further on.
10) Construction window, bottom right, activate "Learn" - and now the next midi note
it receives will be assigned to the currently selected instrument (sweet!).
So click "Learn" then shift to EZP and play the midi file. Now in the Instrument section bottom
right you should see that the KEY for the chosen sound is now whatever note the midi was playing.
At the moment I just stick with the one midi file from DSTool and vary it like this.
11) Stop playing. Press Bounce/Record. Start playing - it will loop if you leave it.
Stop both. Check you have recorded a number of samples (in window next to R button).
12) Select "bounce thru mixer" - this gives you 2 channel file, easy for now.
13) Click bounce, choose path.
14) When that's done locate the WAV and use DSoundTool to create a file. End 8)
((I havn't checked it all out yet, but Louis's set up seems to give a midi file with hits
in groups of 3 at same velocity - so thirty sample file will be 10 different velocities,
with three 'variation' hits per velocity level. Max output seems to be 99, still to check
is if 2box will play a file of more than 99 hits)).
Now you're in business.
It sounds like a huge process, but it really is not a big deal after learning the process the first time. I have tried Midi files with 33 hits, steps, and let it run 3 times then stopped and bounced .... I have also done 49 twice = 98 files that will work for a dsnd ... .... but to test the 99 limit I did one with 99 and let it run twice ... making it 198 files in the MIDI and that was promptly rejected from DSoundTool when trying to create a dsnd .... 49 three times was rejected also ... So stick with something that has 99 repetitions or less. You could do one file with 99 ... run it once ... (I like the idea of having more horizontal layers though that can be randomized... So I prefer doing multiple passes ... at least so far .. )
Step 12 "bounce through mixer" very important, otherwise you will end up with a bunch of individual WAV files for all the different mic positions and bleeds, etc ... pretty useless for creating a dsnd easily.
Great! thank you very much for your mini tutorial. I will run some tests this weekend and report back.
Just one quick q, when generating the midi file, which is the recommendable setting for "Seconds between 2 samples"?
I'd say 2?
Quote from: edcito on May 21, 2011, 12:36:23 AM
Great! thank you very much for your mini tutorial. I will run some tests this weekend and report back.
Just one quick q, when generating the midi file, which is the recommendable setting for "Seconds between 2 samples"?
I'd say 2?
It varies. When you make the MIDI's what I did, just today.... is make more. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
The reason is with some instruments like larger toms and lots of mics, bleed, etc... even if you use 5 sec it is not enough ... the tail of the sound gets cut off.... But on some others that have little effects ... smaller toms 3 sec is fine ...
Ok, first try and got some weird results...
I took a snare and recorded and bounced to 24 bit, 44.1 KHZ,stereo from a midi file with 99 layers.
The resulting wav file was 134 mb and when I tried to generate the dsnd file I got the "insufficient memory error"
Second try, I bounced it to 16 bit and the wav size was only 13 mb, this time dsnd tool accepted the file and generated the dsnd, but dnsd generated only 57 layers... and when I clik on the loudest layer, it plays like 24 hits ???
The rest of the layers play only one hit each....
Hi
perhaps that you didn't let enough space between each hit, or bouncing the file added some noise, so Dsndtool recognized only one layer in the last 24 samples?
You don't need to have 99 layers to make a good sound, try just with 60 layers max, 24 bits, 37khz or 38khz (with this sampling value, you will be able to pitch the sound up with the module, not if you use 44Khz. The 2box editor recognizes differents sampling values).
Quote from: nonoduweb on May 22, 2011, 08:17:18 AM
Hi
perhaps that you didn't let enough space between each hit, or bouncing the file added some noise, so Dsndtool recognized only one layer in the last 24 samples?
You don't need to have 99 layers to make a good sound, try just with 60 layers max, 24 bits, 37khz or 38khz (with this sampling value, you will be able to pitch the sound up with the module, not if you use 44Khz. The 2box editor recognizes differents sampling values).
thanks nonoduweb. I tried with 60 layers for a snare and it was much better. Now I have a nice 7x14 Noble & Cooley/Zildjian Snare Prototype :rock:
But the only thing that buggers me is that if I bounce to 24 bits I get the insufficient memory error in dsndtool. If I bounce to 16 then it goes well.
And the only value accepted by dsoundtool is 44.1 Khz. so changing to 38Khz or something different wont work.
I wonder if it's better to turn off "all bleed on" when bouncing in solo because I'm afraid I will get a very processed and unbalanced kit.. I want to try first a raw sound without bleeding, since I might like a Snare from Custom and Vintage but a kick from Metal foundry, so I'll end up with different bleedings...
Quote from: edcito on May 22, 2011, 10:09:57 AM
thanks nonoduweb. I tried with 60 layers for a snare and it was much better. Now I have a nice 7x14 Noble & Cooley/Zildjian Snare Prototype :rock:
But the only thing that buggers me is that if I bounce to 24 bits I get the insufficient memory error in dsndtool. If I bounce to 16 then it goes well.
And the only value accepted by dsoundtool is 44.1 Khz. so changing to 38Khz or something different wont work.
I wonder if it's better to turn off "all bleed on" when bouncing in solo because I'm afraid I will get a very processed and unbalanced kit.. I want to try first a raw sound without bleeding, since I might like a Snare from Custom and Vintage but a kick from Metal foundry, so I'll end up with different bleedings...
Whatever the problem is with "Not Enough Memory to Perform this operation" I just started getting it too.... and it isn't because you can't make big 24Bit dsnds.... I made a 760MB HH out of NDK ... with it .... now I can't open that dsnd in DSoundTool .... or even the early dsnds that I made .... I did lots and lots of dsnds yesterday, since late last night its a no go ....
slap, thank you for this...
i did a quick test with just snare sample yesterday but im not quite happy with the results...i dont know how can i create a bigger file(i guess better quality sample)...i made some snare, but its just 36mb...how can i increase the quality of samples?
Quote from: Jman on May 22, 2011, 02:21:45 PM
Whatever the problem is with "Not Enough Memory to Perform this operation" I just started getting it too.... and it isn't because you can't make big 24Bit dsnds.... I made a 760MB HH out of NDK ... with it .... now I can't open that dsnd in DSoundTool .... or even the early dsnds that I made .... I did lots and lots of dsnds yesterday, since late last night its a no go ....
I think there are command line parameters you need to change to allow Dsoundtool to access more RAM:
Quote from: Louis on May 30, 2010, 04:38:38 PM
Hi Claes,
What happens if you edit the .bat file with a text editor (like Notepad) and change the contents from:
start "" javaw -Xms100m -Xmx400m -jar "dsoundtool.jar"
to
start "" javaw -Xms100M -Xmx600M -jar "dsoundtool.jar"
This will allow DSoundTool to use a maximum of 600 megabytes of memory (and perhaps the "m" on must be an "M").
If that is not enough, increase the number after "-Xmx".
Hope this helps!
Louis
Try increasing to 1024 (1GB of RAM) and see if that works. As long as your PC has enough RAM free of course...
Quote from: logihack on May 22, 2011, 03:37:55 PM
slap, thank you for this...
i did a quick test with just snare sample yesterday but im not quite happy with the results...i dont know how can i create a bigger file(i guess better quality sample)...i made some snare, but its just 36mb...how can i increase the quality of samples?
You cannot increase sample quality over the original file you are using unless you intend to add ambience and FX to clean it up - in other words you need to start with larger higher quality samples rather than trying to improve samples which are say a lower bit rate and quite small in size. For example, if create a DSND file with 16-bit snare samples which are say 1mb in size, if you have 32 layers then your snare file is going to be roughly 32mb. If however you used a 24-bit .wav samples which were 20mb each (higher quality files will usually be a lot larger than low quality - it also depends on the sample length) and you had 32 layers, you'd end up with a DSND file around 650mb or so. I think thats how it works anyway!
Quote from: Baby Samus on May 22, 2011, 08:55:07 PM
I think there are command line parameters you need to change to allow Dsoundtool to access more RAM:
Try increasing to 1024 (1GB of RAM) and see if that works. As long as your PC has enough RAM free of course...
I increased to the max allowed by my installed memory 4096 with only dsndtool running but still get the not enough memory error.....
So it might be something else..?
Dunno I think you'd have to ask Louis on that one! 4gb is plenty RAM for the job, so not sure why its not recognising the extra assigned RAM...
I will have a look as soon as I have time. In the mean time I would recommend starting dsoundtool from the "launch" link on the web site because that will automatically allocate quite a lot of space; please let me know if that still gives problems, or use the Xmx parameter in the bat file.
Quote from: Louis on May 22, 2011, 10:13:18 PM
I will have a look as soon as I have time. In the mean time I would recommend starting dsoundtool from the "launch" link on the web site because that will automatically allocate quite a lot of space; please let me know if that still gives problems, or use the Xmx parameter in the bat file.
Great, thanks. Launching from the website it's working now.
Off to a nice zildjian hihat! :rock:
But the question now arises: How many articulations in SD? What's the maximum zones a dsnd can accept? I read somewhere else that 7?
I never worked out the memory problem ... had to compromise and build a couple dsnds smaller than I would have liked .... But I am really happy with my BIG sounding kit .... put a vid up in the General forum .... J
Quote from: logihack on May 22, 2011, 03:37:55 PM
slap, thank you for this...
i did a quick test with just snare sample yesterday but im not quite happy with the results...i dont know how can i create a bigger file(i guess better quality sample)...i made some snare, but its just 36mb...how can i increase the quality of samples?
How many individual samples is that?
When I bounce 30 samples at 24bit via Mixer to a stereo file it comes out at roughly 35Mb. That feels about right because I shd think
that the individual hits in SD are not that big (file size) or it wd grind to a halt. A ride hit in the stand alone type of sample set might be
2mb or 3mb but imagine that in SD with multi miking options!
The DSoundTool will then shrink this single WAV down to less than 10MB. Not sure I get this. So far I've been making files up from
many individual WAVs and I've never noticed the file size to shrink like this. Cd be converting down to 16bit maybe?
NOT necesssarily linked to file size, but also I'm not completely happy with the results either - yet.
Things sound fantastic in SD but what I'm getting out of the module in the end, that's not so good. Main thing I wd point my finger
at is a loss/damping of hi freq - cymbals really show this up.
But I havn't really had time to play with it all yet - so ongoing............
Quote from: Slap the drummer on May 23, 2011, 09:49:25 AM
How many individual samples is that?
When I bounce 30 samples at 24bit via Mixer to a stereo file it comes out at roughly 35Mb. That feels about right because I shd think
that the individual hits in SD are not that big (file size) or it wd grind to a halt. A ride hit in the stand alone type of sample set might be
2mb or 3mb but imagine that in SD with multi miking options!
The DSoundTool will then shrink this single WAV down to less than 10MB. Not sure I get this. So far I've been making files up from
many individual WAVs and I've never noticed the file size to shrink like this. Cd be converting down to 16bit maybe?
I just did a quick addition on the last HH I did .... All the WAV's added up to about 390MB ... the resulting dsnd was 234MB .... so it is shrunk .... but it is about 40% smaller in that example...
Woooops ... I forgot to add in the ft splash WAV ... so the WAVs added up to 430MB and the resulting dsnd 234MB ... so shrunk about 45%
today i did some more samples...i tested ad and sd...it sounded good thru headphones, but i will test this kits at the end of the week, playing with band...
i also made some tests with ride and the file for one zone was around 120mb, but dsnd file was exactly 100mb...so the wave was shrunken on a third of the size-even more...
and today i did this with 30 samples...i didnt notice any difference between 30 and 99 samples...but i notice one thing...no matter how many samples(hits), the first one was always at velocity 28...why not 1 or even 10 would be better...but im to lazy to change it manually
Quote from: logihack on May 23, 2011, 05:03:59 PM
today i did some more samples...i tested ad and sd...it sounded good thru headphones, but i will test this kits at the end of the week, playing with band...
i also made some tests with ride and the file for one zone was around 120mb, but dsnd file was exactly 100mb...so the wave was shrunken on a third of the size-even more...
and today i did this with 30 samples...i didnt notice any difference between 30 and 99 samples...but i notice one thing...no matter how many samples(hits), the first one was always at velocity 28...why not 1 or even 10 would be better...but im to lazy to change it manually
Did you bounce the WAVs to 24bit or 16bit?
Quote from: Louis on May 22, 2011, 10:13:18 PM
I will have a look as soon as I have time. In the mean time I would recommend starting dsoundtool from the "launch" link on the web site because that will automatically allocate quite a lot of space; please let me know if that still gives problems, or use the Xmx parameter in the bat file.
I still get the Not enough memory message even if I disable my firewall (won't launch unless I shut down the firewall) and launch from the website. I can't open dsnd's that I created previously. I'm pretty well out of business till I can figure out how to fix that ... J
Quote from: Jman on May 24, 2011, 12:25:03 AM
Did you bounce the WAVs to 24bit or 16bit?
i bounced the wavs to 24bit, but i worked in logic8 with ad samples and maybe i did something wrong...can you tell me velocity for your first hit in midi file
Quote from: logihack on May 24, 2011, 05:24:27 AM
i bounced the wavs to 24bit, but i worked in logic8 with ad samples and maybe i did something wrong...can you tell me velocity for your first hit in midi file
Can't really say, I'm just using EZplayer and Toontrack Solo and I don't see any digital values on the vu meters ...
I am thinking that one difference in the trimming down of WAVS to dsnd's is possibly the amount of seconds being used on the MIDI files ... some of the ones I've made had very little dead space between samples, some were pretty tight ... so maybe DsoundTool trims the dead space and the results reflect that... just guessing
You can see the velocity for each sample in dsoundtool. Just click a layer and it will display a list.
Quote from: edcito on May 24, 2011, 06:08:17 AM
You can see the velocity for each sample in dsoundtool. Just click a layer and it will display a list.
Thanks Ed ... didn't know that ....
So my velocity starting points vary a huge amount ... some toms and snares start at 10 or below ... kicks over 100 .... same with some cymbals, splashes... sure would be good to know what is going on with that ...
Edit .... I don't feel so bad now.... I just looked at some of my stock 2Box dsnd's and the velocity layers are similar .... HH velocity layers starting at 150 for example.
Quote from: Jman on May 24, 2011, 05:07:16 AM
I still get the Not enough memory message even if I disable my firewall (won't launch unless I shut down the firewall) and launch from the website. I can't open dsnd's that I created previously. I'm pretty well out of business till I can figure out how to fix that ... J
I finally figured out how to get into the batch file ... I upped the MB's a bunch and now all is well again .... 8)
Sorry for not having replied earlier on questions about file size, but here we go:
when you have a wave file containing samples and you convert it to a .dsnd file, the dsnd file will become smaller.
This is because:
- dsnd files are 16 bit samples, so if the original wave file is 24 bits you lose 33% in size
- if there is silence between the samples, DSoundTool will cut this away. So if there is a lot of silence, the dsnd file will become much smaller.
About quality loss of sounds, I have not noticed myself, but my musical ear is not so good. Part of it can be that Superior Drummer plays samples at 24 bits, dsnd files use only 16-bit samples. And perhaps a little can be explained because DSoundTool uses a quite simplistic way to convert from 24 to 16 bits, perhaps there are smarter ways. Maybe I need to read again about fast fourier transforms and all that stuff I thought I would never use when I was a student..
Quote from: Louis on May 26, 2011, 08:40:40 PM
Sorry for not having replied earlier on questions about file size, but here we go:
when you have a wave file containing samples and you convert it to a .dsnd file, the dsnd file will become smaller.
This is because:
- dsnd files are 16 bit samples, so if the original wave file is 24 bits you lose 33% in size
- if there is silence between the samples, DSoundTool will cut this away. So if there is a lot of silence, the dsnd file will become much smaller.
About quality loss of sounds, I have not noticed myself, but my musical ear is not so good. Part of it can be that Superior Drummer plays samples at 24 bits, dsnd files use only 16-bit samples. And perhaps a little can be explained because DSoundTool uses a quite simplistic way to convert from 24 to 16 bits, perhaps there are smarter ways. Maybe I need to read again about fast fourier transforms and all that stuff I thought I would never use when I was a student..
There is one sound quality issue with the tails of the samples being cut off abruptly. I know it is not associated with the original WAV recording because I have tried MIDI sequences with both minimum amount of gap/seconds between hits and extra long amounts of gap/seconds between hits. Listening back to the WAVS the sounds ring out without cutting out abruptly. It is there on all instuments in the finished dsnds, Ie, snares, toms, HH etc ... But it is most obvious on Cymbals .... rides, splashes, crashes. If there is any way to fix that it would be great. I never noticed anything like that when doing Many individual waves in one folder ... but when doing MIDI sequencing type WAV conversion where everything is in the one WAV this happens ....
I think your conversion between 24Bit to 16Bit is working just fine ... I have bounced both and the resulting dsnd's are identical in every way.
Again, just giving feedback here .... and want to thank you again for your DSoundTool. It is the crucial part of the equation when building new dsnd sounds from samples!
I loaded my first samples from superior and I'm a bit disappointed by the results... with headphones from the computer they sound really good but once on the module they're just not there......
I don't know, many factors are involved, like mixer settings, envelope, bouncing to 24...
it's not just as straightforward as I thought :-\
I would gladly pay for toontrack and bfd samples ready to load on the orange box, but at this point, one needs a audio engineering degree to achieve a decent sound..in my personal case of course.
Quote from: edcito on May 27, 2011, 06:12:50 AM
I loaded my first samples from superior and I'm a bit disappointed by the results... with headphones from the computer they sound really good but once on the module they're just not there......
I don't know, many factors are involved, like mixer settings, envelope, bouncing to 24...
it's not just as straightforward as I thought :-\
I would gladly pay for toontrack and bfd samples ready to load on the orange box, but at this point, one needs a audio engineering degree to achieve a decent sound..in my personal case of course.
I've been pretty happy with several sets of toms, a few snares, and one HH I've built so far. The tails getting cut off the individual hits as I mentioned above has rendered my cymbals unusable so far. I have been going through the presets and using kits/instruments with the presets .... One thing I do when recording any toms or kicks is turn the bottom snare wire OFF before recording those.... at least so far, as I didn't like the resulting sound on the first few toms or kicks I did with that on ... I also check the panning in the mixer and pan the way I have things set up before recording.... I've recorded with all bleeds on ... bleeds off ... I'm still learning, but definitely not sorry about going this route. Once I can get dsnds with the waves in tact I know it can be killer .... I know this especially because of the NDK dsnds I have already built previously where the WAVs did not get cut short in the dsnds.
Quote from: Jman on May 27, 2011, 06:33:06 AM
I've been pretty happy with several sets of toms, a few snares, and one HH I've built so far. The tails getting cut off the individual hits as I mentioned above has rendered my cymbals unusable so far. I have been going through the presets and using kits/instruments with the presets .... One thing I do when recording any toms or kicks is turn the bottom snare wire OFF before recording those.... at least so far, as I didn't like the resulting sound on the first few toms or kicks I did with that on ... I also check the panning in the mixer and pan the way I have things set up before recording.... I've recorded with all bleeds on ... bleeds off ... I'm still learning, but definitely not sorry about going this route. Once I can get dsnds with the waves in tact I know it can be killer .... I know this especially because of the NDK dsnds I have already built previously where the WAVs did not get cut short in the dsnds.
Yeah, I might try NDK as well. I'm not sorry neither and I see a lot of potential but the learning curve is pretty steep for those not familiar with recording or mixing, like myself.
By the way ... I have bounced everything to 24Bit .... I just like the idea of having the WAVS in the highest quality I have stored on the PC .... But I have tested the results bouncing to 24 or bouncing to 16Bit .... the resulting dsnds are "IDENTICAL" So at present just for building dsnds there really isn't an advantage I can see using 24Bit as they get converted to 16Bit in the dsnds anyway.
Evil Drums is the next expansion I have on the way .... we'll see how that one works ;D
Quote from: Jman on May 27, 2011, 06:33:06 AM
I've been pretty happy with several sets of toms, a few snares, and one HH I've built so far. The tails getting cut off the individual hits as I mentioned above has rendered my cymbals unusable so far. I have been going through the presets and using kits/instruments with the presets .... One thing I do when recording any toms or kicks is turn the bottom snare wire OFF before recording those.... at least so far, as I didn't like the resulting sound on the first few toms or kicks I did with that on ... I also check the panning in the mixer and pan the way I have things set up before recording.... I've recorded with all bleeds on ... bleeds off ... I'm still learning, but definitely not sorry about going this route. Once I can get dsnds with the waves in tact I know it can be killer .... I know this especially because of the NDK dsnds I have already built previously where the WAVs did not get cut short in the dsnds.
i also have a problems with tails of the samples...cut off is always there at higher velocity layers...that sample(its always just one) is shorter and the file size is smaller than others are...the sounds are useless for me, with such an "error"
i also have not enough memory problem on my both apple computers...i tried with firewall off, but no difference here
Quote from: logihack on June 03, 2011, 08:40:33 AM
i also have a problems with tails of the samples...
Hi,
are you sure that the time between two triggers/samples at your MIDI-file is long enough? If you create the Midi-file with dsoundtool you can set this time.
Regards, Manfred
Quote from: Manfred on June 03, 2011, 02:29:13 PM
Hi,
are you sure that the time between two triggers/samples at your MIDI-file is long enough? If you create the Midi-file with dsoundtool you can set this time.
Regards, Manfred
yes the time between samples was long enough...i think 15 sec. is enough for snare without effects on
Yeah, I have found the best results by separating those MIDI performances into individual one hit waves. Lots of audio programs have tools that visually and sonicly will take the multi hit single WAV file and create regions that you can save. Nero 10 was the first program I used .... now I am using Sound Forge since I prefer the way it names and saves files ... A very significant difference building the dsnd from those individual hit files.... my cymbals and other instruments are soooooooo much better, sustain that seems to last forever. You basically get back what you put in, very good results. I'm very pleased with the results now.... I'm definitely getting some excellent dsnds from SD 2.0
MIDI File
I've now made a midi file for use with SD2.0. It has 99 hits running in an even spread
from v=1 to v=127 (ie min to max).
It has 13 second gaps between hits, so you can run it at half or double speed in EZplayer
depending on what you're recording.
Got nowhere to post it, but if you PM me I'll send you a copy. It's 1kb.
Cheers
Quote from: Slap the drummer on June 05, 2011, 06:16:07 PM
MIDI File
I've now made a midi file for use with SD2.0. It has 99 hits running in an even spread
from v=1 to v=127 (ie min to max).
It has 13 second gaps between hits, so you can run it at half or double speed in EZplayer
depending on what you're recording.
Got nowhere to post it, but if you PM me I'll send you a copy. It's 1kb.
Cheers
Slap, I can put it on my FTP so people can download from there if you like .... J
Quote from: Jman on June 05, 2011, 07:40:57 PM
Slap, I can put it on my FTP so people can download from there if you like .... J
Yes please -
if you got the space for it ;)
Quote from: Slap the drummer on June 05, 2011, 08:47:21 PM
Yes please -
if you got the space for it ;)
OK it's UP .... Here is the link:
http://weblogimages.com/dajmando/midi%2099smpl%2016sec.mid
Once the midi file is playing in EZPlayer (triggering the samples from superior drummer 2.0) how does one output that and record it to a .wav file?
Quote from: Baby Samus on June 08, 2011, 02:31:37 AM
Once the midi file is playing in EZPlayer (triggering the samples from superior drummer 2.0) how does one output that and record it to a .wav file?
Sorry if I am backing up from where you are at... not sure....
So, once you right click the instrument you want to record and you have everything set the way you want it ... ie, mixer settings, presets you want ... and all the rest, pick your midi file in EZplayer, play it for a second or 2 if you want to be sure it plays ... then stop it.
Click the learn button (bottom right corner in Toontrack Solo), push the play button in EZ Player ... then stop EZ player. Go to Toontrack Solo .... Bounce, click
Bounce Through Mixer ... and either checkmark all Bleed on ... or uncheck it, depending on whether you want it or not .... Then click
Record, now push
Play in EZ Player. when you get the number of hits you want ...
Stop EZ Player and
Stop the recording in Toontrack Bounce .... Next you push the
Bounce Button and follow the leads ... create your file... Make sure you remember where you put it ... it will probably be just labeled ... in out .... (no matter what I label the WAV file in the Bounce window it always comes out as "in out In Out" where I saved it) I relabel that afterward.
Next you can use DSoundtool to build a dsnd from that Multi Hit WAV .... for me, I now go a step further ... especially important for Cymbals or drums with long sustained resonance .... I use a program and Extract Regions so all the individual hits are separated .... then use DSoundtool to build all the separate hits to a dsnd.
This all sounds like a big complicated process, but actually after building a few dsnds it is like a habit on an assembly line .... click, stop, check, click ... label, opn DSndtl ... etc.... it's second nature very quickly....
Quote from: Jman on June 08, 2011, 03:17:41 AM
This all sounds like a big complicated process, but actually after building a few dsnds it is like a habit on an assembly line .... click, stop, check, click ... label, opn DSndtl ... etc.... it's second nature very quickly....
Right on ! And once you hear the sounds you've made coming back at you from the kit, you won't be thinking that's a load
of hassle - you'll be thinking,
let's get making some MORE of them :drum3:
Thanks Jman - that worked but instead of one snare .wav file in the bounce folder, it recorded the whole kit and seperate .wav files for each kit piece, even though only the snare is being triggered. I tried muting channels in the mixer and turning all the bleed off, I can't see any setting that stops this? Any ideas?
Quote from: Baby Samus on June 08, 2011, 10:00:40 PM
Thanks Jman - that worked but instead of one snare .wav file in the bounce folder, it recorded the whole kit and seperate .wav files for each kit piece, even though only the snare is being triggered. I tried muting channels in the mixer and turning all the bleed off, I can't see any setting that stops this? Any ideas?
Don't forget to Check the Bounce through Mixer box.... that one is important, otherwise you get a bunch of separate files like you describe ... if you check Bounce through Mixer you get one Stereo Multi hit WAV.
Hmm, I cannot for the life of me find any button in Toontrack solo or EZPlayer that is marked 'bounce through mixer'. In Toontrack solo, I click on Bounce, and a box comes up labelled 'Pre Mixer Bounce, but the setting is not in there. I tried the mixer page, but again, no bounce settings. Any ideas?
PS - Read throught he manual, still can't find any reference to an option named 'bounce through mixer'...
Quote from: Baby Samus on June 09, 2011, 08:32:45 PM
Hmm, I cannot for the life of me find any button in Toontrack solo or EZPlayer that is marked 'bounce through mixer'. In Toontrack solo, I click on Bounce, and a box comes up labelled 'Pre Mixer Bounce, but the setting is not in there. I tried the mixer page, but again, no bounce settings. Any ideas?
PS - Read throught he manual, still can't find any reference to an option named 'bounce through mixer'...
So, you have Superior Drummer 2.0 and EZ Player Pro opened up in Toontrack Solo right? The Bounce Function is in the Superior Drummer 2.0 .... When you open up Toontrack Solo you should get a pop up that asks if you want to open a project or select a drummer (Superior Drummer 2.0) If you click Superior Drummer 2.o .... In Superior Drummer 2.0 you should have selections at top .... Constuct, Mixer, Grooves, Mapping, Bounce, Settings, and ? If I click the Bounce category I get a window with choices like 16bit or 24bit, Bounce through Mixer, All Bleed On, Split direct from bleeding, split microphone. I have Superior Drummer vs. 2.23 .... not sure if that makes a dif?????
The "bounce through mixer" switch is in the bounce section of Toontrack Solo.
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1558/screenshot20110610at828.png)
I'm using the latest version (1.3.1). I suggest you go to your downloads section over at toontrack.com and check if you have updates available.
I think that must be it because I only just installed without updates! No wonder. Thanks guys for all your help :)
can the expansion packs be used to create dsnd files without owning/having installed Superior Drummer 2.0? Im not that familiar with these, but Im thinking that the sound files are on the cd, so couldnt they just be pulled off of the cd?
Quote from: stickcharmer on September 19, 2011, 01:03:29 AM
can the expansion packs be used to create dsnd files without owning/having installed Superior Drummer 2.0? Im not that familiar with these, but Im thinking that the sound files are on the cd, so couldnt they just be pulled off of the cd?
no, you cant do it just with expansion pack...it doesnt work without sd2 - the engine
Quotehere is a simple outline of how SD 2.0 can be used to generate DSND files for the 2box
hello everyone,
does anyone did the same tutorial to convert BFD2 sounds ?
allready in .wav format but not 44,1 khz, 16 or 24bits, as Dsoundtool request
thanks for that
Quote from: Drumisan on September 29, 2011, 03:24:12 PM
hello everyone,
does anyone did the same tutorial to convert BFD2 sounds ?
allready in .wav format but not 44,1 khz, 16 or 24bits, as Dsoundtool request
thanks for that
well its practically the same procedure, but instead of using toontrack solo program, you will probably need some kind a host for that...i think even if its bdf stand alone vst sw...try with cubase on wins, or logic, if you are on mac...you cant do it in garage band...with that sw, the converting is even faster...at first i had some problems with cutting the tails of the sample(just one sample/99), but that is fixed in the new version of the dsound tool...
Hey guys,
Just made my first dsnds from superior 2.0 and thanks to the fine instructions from JMAN & SLAP it was a stress free operation. However I too noticed a difference in top end EQ quality after converting to dsnd with dsound tool. I am running an imac, so my question is what program would be the equivelent to Sound Forge for Mac so that I can try constructing dsnds from individual waves like JMAN has to see if there is a difference.
Cheers ;D
Quote from: eyerichards on October 20, 2011, 08:03:00 PM
Hey guys,
Just made my first dsnds from superior 2.0 and thanks to the fine instructions from JMAN & SLAP it was a stress free operation. However I too noticed a difference in top end EQ quality after converting to dsnd with dsound tool. I am running an imac, so my question is what program would be the equivelent to Sound Forge for Mac so that I can try constructing dsnds from individual waves like JMAN has to see if there is a difference.
Cheers ;D
Hi -
Its a shame you can't use SF because the mastering and conversion tools seem to be excellent.
(E.G. I never use the EQ within Superior Drummer because to my ears what comes out of the sound
forge EQ tools sounds so much better).
Anyway what I was going to say was - all these kind of tools (EQ, compression, sample rate,
bit depth, etc) in SF use iZotope programs which come bundled with it. So might be worth looking
at the iZotope site or contact them and see if they've licensed the stuff out to any other
applications.
Also - perhaps a stupid question - you do mean you are comparing playback BEFORE using the
files thru the module? Reason I say this is because the module clearly adds its own signature to
samples and I don't think you're ever going to hear coming from the module what you hear
within SD2.
Yes that's correct I'm comparing the sounds from the computer then the final sound from the module.I'll try the izotope site.
Failing that I do have an older pc that hopefully will have enough processing power to run sound forge. I guess I was hoping to blown away by the sd files in the module like jman and yourself but it's early days and the learning curve is fun. Out of interest, what's actually the process for splitting the wave file to seperate files? And one last question Do you get better results using the midi file you posted or the one generated from dsound tool. Cheers for your help it's mucho appreciated :)
Quote from: eyerichards on October 21, 2011, 01:54:57 PM
Yes that's correct I'm comparing the sounds from the computer then the final sound from the module.
Ah, in that case I think you should expect some difference, and probably also some loss in fidelity.
If you hear significant (or even any) loss before and after .dsnd file creation, then I wd be
wondering if there was a problem.
Certainly reply via the module should sound very good. It must be said though that my main
reason for moving away from the 2box files was not so much that I thought they were no good,
just that I didn't like them. I do think SD sourced files are qualitatively better but for me it's more
about getting something that sounds like I think a drum kit should sound.
I think if you spend some time tweaking the settings in the SD mixer, NOT to get a good sound
in SD so much as to get the sound you're after coming from the module, then you might start to
feel more impressed :)
My take on the SD recordings is that they have tried hard to offer a very basic, neutral sound,
which can sound a bit flat but which is there to be produced and manipulated into something good
sounding.
Splitting the wav files? I do that in sound forge where it is very quick and easy, not sure what the
alternatives wd be..... to be honest though, I can't help feeling that splitting and converting the
samples outside DSoundTool won't really give you what you're looking for.
As I said I think, I do prefer EQ and compression in SF (when I can be bothered!) but otherwise
I'm more than happy just to use Louis's program, it makes the whole process so quick and
straightforward, and you can concentrate on experimenting with SD settings, to see how they
sound later thru the module. I don't think the ds tool introduces any significant loss myself.
Ditto the midi file - the one I made was just an interim thing to get the full range of velocity
from 0 to 127. The files generated from DsoundTool are much better and much more flexible.
Hope this helps a bit.
I would just add that splitting out the files is really only something I was doing if I found the tails were being cut off too soon. That is more apparent in long sustained sounds like ride and other cymbals. It has been sooooo long since I was building many cymbal dsnds I don't remember how many of my later cymbals I split out ..... With Louis' latest version of DSoundTool and the latest MIDIs .... it is much better. Very important to raise the volume at your mixer in Toontrack Solo though .... that helps a lot. Raise the volume so you get close to max volume on the hardest hits ... no real worries about clipping as Solo/SD2 automatically adjusts for that in the finished product. But if you do find that tails are chopped on a certain cymbal or long sustaining instrument, doing all the above plus splitting out the wavs will have the best result.
Quote from: Jman on October 21, 2011, 07:18:17 PM
Very important to raise the volume at your mixer in Toontrack Solo though .... that helps a lot. Raise the volume so you get close to max volume on the hardest hits ... no real worries about clipping as Solo/SD2 automatically adjusts for that in the finished product. But if you do find that tails are chopped on a certain cymbal or long sustaining instrument, doing all the above plus splitting out the wavs will have the best result.
Should I be raising the individual mic levels or the master volume faders that you see on the right seperate to the main construct window. On the bounce window I notice there are pre mixer and post mixer knobs, is it best to leave these alone?
Quote from: eyerichards on October 21, 2011, 09:19:31 PM
Should I be raising the individual mic levels or the master volume faders that you see on the right seperate to the main construct window. On the bounce window I notice there are pre mixer and post mixer knobs, is it best to leave these alone?
I just raise the 2 band Mixer in Toontrack Solo... Top of the page in Toontrack Solo, click Show Mixer. It shows on the left side of my page. Separate. If your volume on your hits is not high enough DSoundtool tends to cut off the tails.
Quote from: Jman on October 21, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
I just raise the 2 band Mixer in Toontrack Solo... Top of the page in Toontrack Solo, click Show Mixer. It shows on the left side of my page. Separate. If your volume on your hits is not high enough DSoundtool tends to cut off the tails.
Sweet! I'll give that a go after I've done the lawns, bloody spring growth ha ha ;D
Thanks guys.
I did about 8 stacked cymbal dsnds and a few effect type cymbal dsnds like OZones and FX and Effeks yesterday...... Made sure my volumes were cranked up toward max .... had no problems at all with tails getting chopped ... the latest DSoundTool works quite well now, and I didn't have to bother splitting the Wav files to individuals.
Quote from: Jman on October 23, 2011, 04:39:35 AM
I did about 8 stacked cymbal dsnds and a few effect type cymbal dsnds like OZones and FX and Effeks yesterday...... Made sure my volumes were cranked up toward max .... had no problems at all with tails getting chopped ... the latest DSoundTool works quite well now, and I didn't have to bother splitting the Wav files to individuals.
That's great. I'll save my money on buying sound forge and donate it to Louis dsound charities instead. :)
Did someone say this was simple? blimey!
I will have a go soon anyway thanks.
I have started doing my own .dsnd's and I found that once you start the process its quite simple.
I also discovered that I could not performs the tasks in Cubase Le4. No matter what I did I had driver conflicts with ASIO4All.
So, I took a different route and loaded up my trusty old version of VST Host. Voila! No issues at all with playing the midi file and recording the audio in the same program. Also, I am still waiting on my new copy of SD to come in (long story but basically I had to buy another copy.. grr...) so in the meantime I have started on BFD ECO.
The sounds out of it are great! 24 velocity layers too which works quite well with the 2Box. I can expand those in the DsoundTool easily as well.
I record the audio in 48KHz sampling @ 24bit, beautiful clean samples and really quite good sounds. BFD ECO has some great kicks and snares, toms are great too.
Easy to do as well, using the VST Host as a base.
Happy camper.
Quote from: ROB219 on January 24, 2012, 12:28:54 AM
I record the audio in 48KHz sampling @ 24bit
Happy camper.
the standard sample rate for the DRUMIT is 44.1khz in 16 bit.... i think Dsoundtool is converting other formats to this , so it s better to render it directly this way ....
Ah, I wasn't sure if it was 48 or 44.1... cool I'll alter that, easy done. Cheers.
Hi,
Quote from: edtc on January 24, 2012, 12:53:10 AM
the standard sample rate for the DRUMIT is 44.1khz in 16 bit.... i think Dsoundtool is converting other formats to this , so it s better to render it directly this way ....
As far as i know the 2Box sounds are 44.1kHz but with 24bit. By the way, the 2Box editor is now also capable to create multizone sounds.
Regards, Manfred
Quote from: Manfred on January 24, 2012, 06:04:55 PM
Hi,
As far as i know the 2Box sounds are 44.1kHz but with 24bit. By the way, the 2Box editor is now also capable to create multizone sounds.
Regards, Manfred
the bit depth for the drumit is 24bit ( mixing , effects , output audio conversion ....) but i m quite sure i read somewhere the samples are 16 bit ....
.... to be confirmed by Deve
Quote from: Slap the drummer on June 05, 2011, 06:16:07 PM
Quick question. How do I download the midi file so I can save it. Everytime I go to Jman's site, the midi file plays. Am I supposed to burn it or something. ??? Sorry.
MIDI File
I've now made a midi file for use with SD2.0. It has 99 hits running in an even spread
from v=1 to v=127 (ie min to max).
It has 13 second gaps between hits, so you can run it at half or double speed in EZplayer
depending on what you're recording.
Got nowhere to post it, but if you PM me I'll send you a copy. It's 1kb.
Cheers
Quote from: raptor on February 16, 2012, 11:39:39 PM
If you right click the link and select Save As .... then save it somewhere you can find it on your computer it will save and not play. Personally I find that the MIDI files you can make in the latest DSoundTool work real well. With that you can make up MIDI files that are different amount of hits and different amount of seconds between hits. This is important because you don't necessarily need 99 hits for instruments. I use less than that for tom or snare rims, and really most everything except snare and tom heads. Like 20 to 33 hits on cymbal bells 33 to 49 hits on cymbal edges, 49 hits on bows ... 33 hits on most HH transitions. 9 hits on Foot Splash ... Also the amount of seconds between hits varies conciderably ... some snare hits only need 2 seconds till they die out completely, many cymbal hits will take over 10 seconds. So for me I have made up a bunch of MIDI's. 20 hit, 33 hit, 49 hit, 70 hit and 99 hit with gaps of 2 seconds up to 20 seconds. Those amount of hits is just what I chose, but the point is you don't really need to use 99 hit 16 sec. gap MIDI for making all your dsnds ... it is a lot of excess dead space and you'll end up making dsnds that are giant when much more compact dsnds will play equivalent IMO.
Also, if you are using just the Toontrack Solo and EZ Player to record and bounce these WAVs for your dsnds ... if you do 99 hit 16 second gap recordings it will take Forever .... IE ... over 26 minutes it takes to record 99 hits 16 second gap .... if you only need 99 hits at a 2 second gap, that is a little over 3 minutes .... if you see what I mean...
Oh your right. Forget about the right click. I think on my mac it's option or command click. And thanks for the detailed info too.
btw Jman, I received your AC adapter today for the 2box. Can't wait to power up the module. I've been staring at it since Valentines Day, I love the orange color too! 8)
Quote from: raptor on February 17, 2012, 12:28:28 AM
Oh your right. Forget about the right click. I think on my mac it's option or command click. And thanks for the detailed info too.
btw Jman, I received your AC adapter today for the 2box. Can't wait to power up the module. I've been staring at it since Valentines Day, I love the orange color too! 8)
Actually the module sounds better than it looks IMO ;D I'm sure you'll enjoy it more now that you can turn it on! Reading back ... I probably built a lot more MIDI files than I need seeing that you can run EZ Player at different speeds, but it really only takes a few seconds to make a MIDI sequence file. So what I did is just build a bunch of MIDI Sequences, import those into EZ Player and then test out a couple to see what fits for the instrument you record. I'll put a bunch of the newer MIDI sequences I've already built with the latest DSoundTool into a folder and upload it to my FTP space. If they work for someone else that's great. The latest DSoundTool is an improvement as far as velocity range IMO ... I had previosly built a bunch of MIDI sequences using earlier DSTool but I do have quite a few newer ones.
So here are a bunch of MIDI sequences. Some 7 hit (fine for HH foot splash IMO), 16 hit, 20 hit, 33 hit, 49 hit, 70 hit, and 98 hit. The first numbers indicate the number of hits, like 332C is 33 hits, 2 second gap between hits ... and c just tells me it is built with the latest DSoundtool:
Again, save to your computer:
http://weblogimages.com/dajmando/MIDI%20Sqncs.zip
I put a detailed description how to create dsnd files with DSoundTool and Superior Drummer in http://www.shortestpath.se/dsoundtool/manual/sd.html
Please let me know if anything is unclear, missing, or wrong.
Hey Louis thanks for posting this. :) You pointed out a couple of things that I wasn't doing when starting my SD files. Might explain my less than stellar results after I created my dsnd files.
Thanks Louis. It seems easy enough and well explained to me.. When i'll get my hand on SD, i will use this as a starting point and give feedback on how it goes ;)
I probably should have looked through this entire thread before posting because I think we have discussed this before, but here we go anyways ;) Not every expansion, but on many of the SD2 snares the upper velocity layers that are triggered on the Head are actually rimshots. I do not like having the rimshot sound at all on the head. so .... I have gone back and split out my files in the past to individual hits and then deleted those rimshots. I did some experimenting today and by going to the mapping page and reducing the max velocity on the snare head (left slider) you can eliminate those rimshots. The velocity that the rimshot samples come in at varies, so you need to reduce it, test it by playing your MIDI file and repeat if necessary. As an example, on one snare I reduced to 117 Max velocity but on another the rimshots started from above 105, so I had to reduce that one to 105 Max vel.
I have found I needed to raise the Master Volume sliders as the MIDI will start at a lower volume. And as an example if I started out with a 98 hit MIDI file my resulting WAV file only contained 85 hits, because of the missing top velocities, but the process is much faster than manually eliminating those Rimshot sounds on the head, if you are like me and that is what you prefer. J
Quote from: logihack on September 19, 2011, 07:50:46 AM
no, you cant do it just with expansion pack...it doesnt work without sd2 - the engine
Hi sorry this is a old thread, but Google lets you find anything. I just got doing the 16 GB mod (accidentally bought the 16 GB cable) I just want to confirm that using this method will allow me to individual DSND files of individual parts of the kit, with high sample sizes. I don't currently have SD 2.0, but i do have toontracks, EZdrummer 2.0. Is it correct that I couldn't do this method with EZdrummer 2.0? I'm kind of new trying to get this all figured out. Is there a wikipedia with all this information on doing all this stuff. Seems like having it all spread out in forums is kind of a pain.
Quote from: Devious123 on May 03, 2015, 03:14:30 PM
Hi sorry this is a old thread, but Google lets you find anything. I just got doing the 16 GB mod (accidentally bought the 16 GB cable) I just want to confirm that using this method will allow me to individual DSND files of individual parts of the kit, with high sample sizes. I don't currently have SD 2.0, but i do have toontracks, EZdrummer 2.0. Is it correct that I couldn't do this method with EZdrummer 2.0? I'm kind of new trying to get this all figured out. Is there a wikipedia with all this information on doing all this stuff. Seems like having it all spread out in forums is kind of a pain.
First, just because the extender cable says 16GB doesn't mean it won't work for 32GB cards. Many of them have that label and work for 32GB cards.
Second, I strongly advise looking into SDSE for converting dsnds: http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,1544.0.html
When i put the 32 GB card in it says "fat_s_0512_c_16k, after taking a real long time to boot. The card is a Sanddisk Extreme hd video, which from what i gathered from other threads maybe juck. It is a card i have had for at least a year. If it boots with the card does that mean the cable is at least good?
Quote from: Devious123 on May 03, 2015, 06:13:51 PM
When i put the 32 GB card in it says "fat_s_0512_c_16k, after taking a real long time to boot. The card is a Sanddisk Extreme hd video, which from what i gathered from other threads maybe juck. It is a card i have had for at least a year. If it boots with the card does that mean the cable is at least good?
Yeah, you will prolly want to get a compatible card, because we have had some bad experiences with that model. But the error you are getting is most likely because your card is not formatted correctly. It looks like your card is formatted to 16K cluster size and should be formatted to 32K cluster size. Here is a thread on that:
http://www.2box-forum.com/index.php/topic,1941.msg17330.html#msg17330
I actually came a crossed that program previously trying to get some micro sd cards to work on my old Motorola triumph phone, which was unsuccessful. The program worked at getting the super slow sanddisk extreme working so it at least showed my cable could boot up a 32 GB card. I got the sand disk ultra 16GB (micro sd card in SD converter) coming in at about a half second slower on then the original atp pro max class ten, on the boot up time, so I'll go with that for now till i can get me a fast 32 GB SD card. I'll try it out, and if it causes issues I'll put the original back in.
Quote from: Jman on February 17, 2012, 12:16:31 AM
If you right click the link and select Save As .... then save it somewhere you can find it on your computer it will save and not play. Personally I find that the MIDI files you can make in the latest DSoundTool work real well. With that you can make up MIDI files that are different amount of hits and different amount of seconds between hits. This is important because you don't necessarily need 99 hits for instruments. I use less than that for tom or snare rims, and really most everything except snare and tom heads. Like 20 to 33 hits on cymbal bells 33 to 49 hits on cymbal edges, 49 hits on bows ... 33 hits on most HH transitions. 9 hits on Foot Splash ... Also the amount of seconds between hits varies conciderably ... some snare hits only need 2 seconds till they die out completely, many cymbal hits will take over 10 seconds. So for me I have made up a bunch of MIDI's. 20 hit, 33 hit, 49 hit, 70 hit and 99 hit with gaps of 2 seconds up to 20 seconds. Those amount of hits is just what I chose, but the point is you don't really need to use 99 hit 16 sec. gap MIDI for making all your dsnds ... it is a lot of excess dead space and you'll end up making dsnds that are giant when much more compact dsnds will play equivalent IMO.
Also, if you are using just the Toontrack Solo and EZ Player to record and bounce these WAVs for your dsnds ... if you do 99 hit 16 second gap recordings it will take Forever .... IE ... over 26 minutes it takes to record 99 hits 16 second gap .... if you only need 99 hits at a 2 second gap, that is a little over 3 minutes .... if you see what I mean...
I was wondering about these samples that cut out after like 2-3, which i started to recently notice. I'm probably a tad picky, but ever since i noticed the gate closing type sound at the end of the sample being played, it kind of irritating. After finding this out i was checking out ezdrummer 2, and i noticed it was pretty similar. I started wondering if my quad capture gate was on, but i checked it, and it wasn't on. I guess to me if the sample are going to noticeably end when you strike a hit there should be some sort of noise compensation, in the form of a noise floor sound that fills in for the sample when it ends, or maybe you could a reverb to some how fill in at the end of the tail. I suppose i just think the abruptness of the sound end once you do the last hit is irritating.