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2Box Drumit 5 Forum => General 2Box Drumit 3 Forum => Topic started by: Michael on May 26, 2018, 01:47:19 PM

Title: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Michael on May 26, 2018, 01:47:19 PM
Hi Guys,

after fiddling around with my new DI3 for two weeks, I am quite happy with my setupp ... with some challenges still to be solved, this is one of them:

The volume level for the three ride zones do not blend well with each other. When hitting with the same velocity there is a difference in volume of several db (3-6db I would guess), depending on the zone.

I can either configure it in a way that
- bow and bell are on the same level (Bell gain on "M") but then the edge is way too loud
- If is set Bell gain  to "H" it fits quite well with edge, but then playing the bow is too low

There are some factory sounds where the ride zone volumes agree well (e.g "Simon Philips 1") with other  kits (e.g. Randy Black 1) the difference is pronounced

BTW, I mainly use  Superior Drummer sounds exported with SDSE, with these sounds the volume difference is even prominent.

Anyone with the same issue? Any ideas other then switching off the edge  :'( ?

My setup / config
- Roland CY13 or 12 R/C, same issue with both
- Type CyPSB
- Threshold -48 (might be extreme, but I want the ride to behave similar to my acoustic set)
- xtalk MED
- gain 5 M or 5 H
- curve "Norm"

I played around with a bunch of different settings, like threshold, -36, gain 0, different curves, but at the end the effect is always there, no matter what.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: welshsteve on May 26, 2018, 02:54:27 PM
you can get a 3rd party (Lustar app) dsdn editor to reduce the volume of the zones (I hope I am right!!!) However I have never used this but I do recall other people using it to level out zones.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Jman on May 26, 2018, 04:46:27 PM
Quote from: welshsteve on May 26, 2018, 02:54:27 PM
you can get a 3rd party (Lustar app) dsdn editor to reduce the volume of the zones (I hope I am right!!!) However I have never used this but I do recall other people using it to level out zones.
That's correct and actually he mentioned he already has SDSE which already has DsoundTool included. Also in answer to the question about "shutting off" the edge sound. If you look at the Ride instrument you will see +++ for a 3 zone ride for the 3 zone sounds. You can change that .... to a - (Minus) for any zone which shuts that zone off. Hate to mention it but RTFM! LOL
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: ANGR77 on May 26, 2018, 06:16:01 PM
Hi!

I was testing a lot when I created my Roland three zone ride conversion box for Drumit Five.

I was using 5M and set the threshold below 36. For cy-15R I even went to 32...to get some good results. But this was for the Five...check the manual: https://zourman.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/ZD_manual_CY-1XR.pdf

I have also a three...let me check what my best settings was here...

Best regards

Anders / www.zourman.com

Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Jman on May 26, 2018, 06:28:53 PM
As far as Volume of the different zones of rides: You even mentioned it yourself that some rides suit your taste with the volume levels and others don't. I found early when I was working with the Drumit Five whether 2Box sounds or various rides from VSTs some have bell zones that seem louder than others, some bows very low in volume, some edges high in volume. It has a lot more to do with the way the original samples were recorded. So, starting years ago I have used DsoundTool to adjust the different zones to my own liking when necessary. And that is on original 2Box sounds as well as dsnds built from VSTs. It is an extra step, but it only takes a minute to open up the dsnd in DsoundTool, adjust those levels and save it. And this applies to other instruments, sometimes I would adjust Hi Hat .dsnds also as some have louder edge sounds than I prefer, etc. Snare rims, sometimes the same, etc.

As a side note: One mistake many owners make is trying to fix volume differences by boosting the Trigger Gain ...... When setting up triggers it is important to use the visual Velocity meter, not how loud the sound is. So first setup the trigger so it is responding correctly regardless how loud it sounds. I have seen people set the Gain up to +20 or higher mistakenly because they believed it needed to be set super high. When in reality they no longer had good dynamics because even low velocity hits were maxing out the Velocity of the .dsnd. Instead triggers need to be setup so ONLY the hardest hits trigger max velocity. After that, if volumes need adjustment ..... adjust the instrument mixer in the module and or use DsoundTool to even out volumes as already mentioned. On my own Stealth cymbals I have seen customers make that mistake in setting up the Triggers. I have parameters that I have tested and provided and know they work very well or at least are very close and need only slight tweaking to taste or differences in brand or type of cymbals that are used. But, when I see they have set the trigger gain Very high it is normally because they have mistakenly setup by ear rather than by setting dynamically with hardest velocity hits visually using the trigger velocity visual.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: welshsteve on May 27, 2018, 09:15:06 AM
Quote from: Jman on May 26, 2018, 04:46:27 PM
Hate to mention it but RTFM! LOL

Dude, I don't know the full aspects of SDSE, I don't have it and never used it. I did read the message!
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Michael on May 27, 2018, 03:15:05 PM
Many thanks all for all the answers. Using DsoundTool to adjust the volume for each zone definitely solved the problem. Hooray, sounds much better now!!

I originally thought that the problem was with the trigger settings because also some of the factory sounds have that problem (and I naively assumed that they would be perfectly fine tuned) but with the tool it is easy to see/hear, that the leveling of the audio is the issue.  Also very useful that one can check all the different  layers in the .dsdn file and compare the volume of different velocities.

@Jman: I need to jump into self defense mode for a sec: I did RTFM .. forward and backward. In this thread I was looking for solution *other* than disabling the edge.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Jman on May 27, 2018, 04:09:56 PM
Quote from: welshsteve on May 27, 2018, 09:15:06 AM
Dude, I don't know the full aspects of SDSE, I don't have it and never used it. I did read the message!
Easy man, that was in answer to Michael's questions about the shutting off the Edge sound.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Jman on May 27, 2018, 04:14:43 PM
Quote from: Michael on May 27, 2018, 03:15:05 PM


@Jman: I need to jump into self defense mode for a sec: I did RTFM .. forward and backward. In this thread I was looking for solution *other* than disabling the edge.
My apologies, I mis-read your original post and thought you were asking about shutting of the edge sound as a last resort. I now see you said any solution "other than" shutting off the edge ..... At any rate you still benefited from the rest of the details in my post ..... you're welcome.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Rmiller on September 07, 2018, 11:06:59 PM
I have been trying to figure out where you can set the zone volumes for a 3 ride in Dkit manager. I don’t see anything for zones except the +++ or the bell gain low,med,high. I don’t see anything in DSsound tuner that has anything to do with zones either. Is the DSsound tuner the same thing as the DSsound tool that has been mentioned? I have read every user manual out there. I am guessing the DSound tool is no longer available. Need some help.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Jman on September 08, 2018, 05:20:54 AM
Quote from: Rmiller on September 07, 2018, 11:06:59 PM
I have been trying to figure out where you can set the zone volumes for a 3 ride in Dkit manager. I don’t see anything for zones except the +++ or the bell gain low,med,high. I don’t see anything in DSsound tuner that has anything to do with zones either. Is the DSsound tuner the same thing as the DSsound tool that has been mentioned? I have read every user manual out there. I am guessing the DSound tool is no longer available. Need some help.
DsoundTool is dif. from DsoundTuner. I'm not sure about Lustar's Dsound Tuner, Lustar might chime in on that. But DsoundTool is what you can use to adjust the independent zone volumes of the .dsnd Once you adjust the volume to your liking you simply Save the .dsnd and the zone volumes will be adjusted as you chose. J
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Rmiller on September 08, 2018, 01:37:26 PM
Thanks Jerry. The problem I was having was I could not find the DSoundtool. Lustar pointed me in the right direction. It’s in the SDSE program file folder now and can be launched from there. Created a shortcut on desktop and got it going. All is good now👍.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: welshsteve on September 08, 2018, 10:49:44 PM
Lustar's Software alone seems like it's worth getting a windows machine (yeah I know I can partition the Mac to have windows on it, but I am trying to preserve limited SSD space)

Doesn't have to be a powerful machine so I could probably pick up a SH laptop for less than £100 that would do the job nicely.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Rmiller on September 10, 2018, 01:24:36 AM
I prefer MAC but I also have a windows laptop. If you do a lot of tweaking, use VST’s and/or have the 32gb mod, then the SDSE and the Drumit software is a must. The Drumit kit software basically mirrors the module, but with a much easier to use layout. It makes navigating the module menus a snap. I use SDSE (need Reaper, it’s on the Lustar sight) to convert VST’s (AD2 etc) to use in the module and the now the included DSsoundtool to tweak the zones. I purchased all the software to get all the capabilities. Of course running all on the windows machine. Maybe one day it will go MAC but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Lustar’s support is the best and very quick with responses to any questions. Highly recommended.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: lesmay on September 14, 2018, 12:33:55 PM
I’ve been reading this thread with interest, I see that I’m going to have to get a PC laptop to tweak the levels of the samples, I’ve only ever used Mac! My question is, what spec should I be looking at and Windows version is the most stable?

Thanks
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: Rmiller on September 14, 2018, 05:33:08 PM
Mine is a Dell Inspiron 5767 and has windows 10 64 bit, intel i5 core processor, 8 gb ram. No issues. Not a fan of windows anymore especially with their automatic updates and prefer the Mac but the Dell fits the hole.
Title: Re: Ride Edge volume too high
Post by: manonthemoon on April 20, 2019, 10:15:30 AM
Had my DI3 for a while now and the only thing that's bugging me is this way too loud edge. Tried getting the Dsound Tool but it ain't working on my laptop. Any other ways of doing this?

Cheers
MOTM