All over digitaldrummers facebook. Most important info for me: BFD VST compatibel only.
Just to be clear: it's an NFUZD kit, with BFDeco samples. More details will be revealed at NAMM next week.
Quote from: digitalDrummer on January 19, 2015, 11:36:49 PM
Just to be clear: it's an NFUZD kit, with BFDeco samples. More details will be revealed at NAMM next week.
I was a bit brief in my post, I like the idea that another module with samples comes on the market. But I don't think it will beat the open character of 2Box. :)
I'm heading to NAMM on Thursday, 1st stop NAMM breakfast ;) but I'll head over to check out NFUZD after that and get as much info as I can. J
Quote from: Jman on January 20, 2015, 09:36:22 PM
I'm heading to NAMM on Thursday, 1st stop NAMM breakfast ;) but I'll head over to check out NFUZD after that and get as much info as I can. J
Looking forward to your report. :) Enjoy your breakfast first. And say hi to Bengt and ask him about his plans. Please.
Quote from: Murgen on January 20, 2015, 09:48:10 PM
Looking forward to your report. :) Enjoy your breakfast first. And say hi to Bengt and ask him about his plans. Please.
Not sure if Bengt will be there or not, he emailed me last week about something else, in my reply I asked about NAMM, but never heard back... If he's there I'll track him down....
Teaser of the NFUZD kit/module: http://www.nfuzdaudio.com/ (http://www.nfuzdaudio.com/)
I'll get as many hard facts/stats as I can tomorrow at NAMM ....... then I will see if I am right about this.
This is my preliminary guess from the info trickling out so far.... While this will be of interest and there seems to be some excitement this will not be exciting for the 2Box users in general or those 2Box users who have delved into the potential of 2box's open sound source system. With 2Box I can build dsnds from virtually any VST and with up to 99 samples (or more with the 2Box Editor) per instrument articulation. And the stock onboard sounds are already very good and built with plenty of velocities in general.
With NFUZD they are talking about BFD Eco. Typically BFD Eco has upward/max of 24 samples per instrument with max of 48 for snare. Personally I wouldn't even bother building my 2Box dsnds from Eco. With 2Box our dsnds can be built using many more samples than that. So, I'm guessing we are looking at a more entry level type drum sample based system. Evidently if you have BFD3 you will be able to use the other BFD3 sounds or any of the sounds from BFD expansions, etc. that you can use in BFD3. But again, the limits/quality to/from the module will be of the Eco variety.
Granted, nice to have a simple import function directly through the module/software ....... but I'll still take my open sound source any day!
I still think this will have better quality drum sounds than Roland modules. Mainly because Roland modules use some very low resolution/quality samples to start with and allow you to play around with synthesizer effects ..... hence the reason some of us have migrated from that camp and just can't get off on that synthesized drum sound anymore.
Again, this is all just my speculation/guessing, but we'll know more tomorrow.
The more I read the weirder it gets.
Create the import files on the PC, import them into the module via an USB-stick?? 512 mb on Namm, only 4 Gb flash on final model?
Youtube has a demo with the snare machine gunning? Quality of the pads is questioned?
If this is all true our 2Box design is still lightyears ahead of nfuzd.
I can also just comment that I am amazed (not) that the new platform seems to have some real disadvantages...what have they done in the project during the last 4 years?
ANGR77
Quote from: Murgen on January 24, 2015, 10:01:22 AM
The more I read the weirder it gets.
Create the import files on the PC, import them into the module via an USB-stick?? 512 mb on Namm, only 4 Gb flash on final model?
Youtube has a demo with the snare machine gunning? Quality of the pads is questioned?
If this is all true our 2Box design is still lightyears ahead of nfuzd.
There was a lot of interest on this over at vdrums.com so I have posted quite a bit over there. This has an 8 sample limit per instrument zone. Quite a difference from us 2Boxers who have plenty of snares for example with 99 samples on head and 50 or so samples on rim!
And that 4GB talk is just that. The module has 512MB. I can't even tell you the last time I was thinking about buying a 512MB card! LOL
2Box Open Sound Source is not much liked IMO by the VST companies. It is just that "Open". The reasoning that is always mentioned is that they cannot Lock/License their products to our modules. Honestly I don't get it! Making it out like people are gonna rip em off for their software, when in truth the 2Box module has resulted in a great many sales of VST software these companies would have never gotten. I know for myself that is thousands. So, I buy the software, I use it on my "sampler"..... I am a software owner..... and it kind of pisses me off when they honestly don't appreciate the business! If the VST companies want to look at where their software is getting ripped off, it is pretty obvious when a new software is released and shortly after some of the torrent sites pop up on the web ......
So IMO, that was one of the motivators for this system. A system that can be locked to a VST company. You buy the module. You get the entry level software with it. You buy more software from them. Everybody is happy right? ;)
I do think they have some innovative ideas in the pads, and the module too. But for those of us that are already using the 2Box module, this can be looked at as something more entry level, and not a temptation in the least. I have owned my 2Box modules since 2010/2011 and I have never been more satisfied with any eDrum module. For me, I don't even see a close 2nd! ..... still 6 years later!
I don't see what all the fuss is about either. VST companies can already "lock" their software to your PC after purchase anyway....and you have to have a computer to use it. "Open source" module use is really no different than "open source" PC use. ::) People are always figure out a way to steal whatever they want. I don't condone it...but it's a fact. Locking your hardware to one source is novel but it only tends to limit sales. So IMO they shot themselves in the foot and alienated most of the demographic of sales. Bad move since this "system" has everything to do with making money for BFD and nothing to do with the "advancement " of the edrum industry.
Skot McDonald admitted the DRM issue justnow on FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/digitaldrummer/
Skot McDonald: We were talking with all the various eDrum manufacturers for some years about how to do it so it worked for everyone - which includes our third party expansion pack providers for whom DRM (copy protection) is paramount. This is one of the reasons why w...See More
48 mins · Edited · Like
Let's put this in perspective. It's a $750 module - half the price of the 2box. It is a sonic blank slate that allows you to choose from thousands of instrument sounds, add FX, etc.
What does the competition that sells for much, much more offer? On the whole, a locked box with limited sounds. Even 2box can only be exploited properly with a third-party tool, a hardware hack and some experience.
And let's not forget that most buyers are not at all like the enthusiasts we have here or on the other FB groups and forums. They are punters who buy a kit, plug it in and play it. That's it.
Time will tell, but I can't see John Emrich, FXpansion and the development team putting their names to a second-rate offering.
I can see this kit with the BFD sample playing capabilities as direct competition for some of the Yamaha DTX line, and some of the Roland kits for sure, and definitely better than a Pearl EPro or Alesis DM10 kit. The sound module ala carte though seems like it will really be more useful for people that already own the NSPIRE kit and want to add more NSPIRE pads, cymbals, etc. because at this point they are clearly gearing this to their own pads.
Quote from: digitalDrummer on January 27, 2015, 05:00:13 AM
Let's put this in perspective. It's a $750 module - half the price of the 2box. It is a sonic blank slate that allows you to choose from thousands of instrument sounds, add FX, etc.
What does the competition that sells for much, much more offer? On the whole, a locked box with limited sounds. Even 2box can only be exploited properly with a third-party tool, a hardware hack and some experience.
And let's not forget that most buyers are not at all like the enthusiasts we have here or on the other FB groups and forums. They are punters who buy a kit, plug it in and play it. That's it.
Time will tell, but I can't see John Emrich, FXpansion and the development team putting their names to a second-rate offering.
First I've never seen a 2Box module for $1500 US. So the "half price" "perspective" is a tad bit embellished and for the real price difference the 2Box offers way more for the price point than even most of the modules that truly are closer to twice it's cost....and stands alone in it's feature set. That said, I do agree with your statement in general about the punters but we would be remiss if we didn't point out the limitations of the is compared to the only real competition it has in this category. I myself even when beginning my journey, as punter, was looking for exactly what was available module wise in this category of which there were none. VSTs were the appeal that drew me in because of sound quality but I had to settle for the closest "synthesized" option available at the time. I would have been upset if upon buying this unit if no one had pointed out it's limitations compared to my other options especially in reference to the future upgrades as my drumming skills increased. Not all "punters" are "impulse" buyers and most that are, become quickly disappointed with their purchase shortly after they discover what options were available if they had only taken time to search. Just because one is a "punter" does not mean they don't want to get the most for their money. Full disclosure and information is key to and educated decision and purchase.
Also we both know that "Hack" is harsh description that usually implies some sort of illegal or unethical act which is so far from the truth,(unless referring to my drumming where the term is quite accurate) ;) and the "Modifications" made to enhance the 2Box are far from evasive, permanent or subversive and can be performed by even the most inexperienced "punter" with no specialty tools or skill set. So at least the 2Box can be "exploited" properly with very few future limitations in expandability and flexibility while this particular module will never be more than what you see. As for "second rate", as in "crappy gear" I highly doubt it also, but most definitely "second" to flexibility and features to 2Box none the less.
Quote from: fulrmr on January 27, 2015, 06:32:39 PM
First I've never seen a 2Box module for $1500 US. So the "half price" "perspective" is a tad bit embellished
From Musician's Friend:
MSRP:
$1,711.10
Try the real price it sells for $1099 ::)
Not sure yet of the street price of the NSPIRE module, but I stand corrected.
Quote from: digitalDrummer on January 28, 2015, 01:46:30 AM
Not sure yet of the street price of the NSPIRE module, but I stand corrected.
Just to be fair minded here, if the price that I've seen of $750 is US MSRP for the NSPIRE module....lets put this into true perspective in proportion to the difference of the two 2Box prices. That would make the speculative Musician's Friend price approximately $525 or just a bit more. Indeed that would make the NSPIRE the biggest bang for the buck "Entry Level" module on the market. Yes...then it would be "half the price" of the 2Box module, but still Not in 2Box's league. It would be, however, in a league all its own well above the current entry level offerings in that price range. Once again...still no competition for 2Box. ;)
Quote from: Jman on January 27, 2015, 05:42:39 AM
I can see this kit with the BFD sample playing capabilities as direct competition for some of the Yamaha DTX line, and some of the Roland kits for sure, and definitely better than a Pearl EPro or Alesis DM10 kit. The sound module ala carte though seems like it will really be more useful for people that already own the NSPIRE kit and want to add more NSPIRE pads, cymbals, etc. because at this point they are clearly gearing this to their own pads.
I asked a question to them and the info I got, apparently they will release later "adapter" to allow others DIY\ others brand to works with the module, we will see this later, I am not sure how they are interpreted the "Adpator" tough.
Quote from: chris k on January 29, 2015, 01:52:23 PM
I asked a question to them and the info I got, apparently they will release later "adapter" to allow others DIY\ others brand to works with the module, we will see this later, I am not sure how they are interpreted the "Adpator" tough.
"later" could also be very subjective...and possibly mean "never". ::)
Quote from: fulrmr on January 29, 2015, 04:45:11 PM
"later" could also be very subjective...and possibly mean "never". ::)
Well this was the answer I received from nspire facebook message 2 days ago about the adapter, and from Digital Drummer facebook in public Skot Mcdonald during Namm time, now I start to understand what he said "trigger electrical format conversion boxes in the works" this is probably what he called "adapter"?? and another things he said , this is different, trigger-IO boxes together via CAT-5 cable to boost trigger inputs.
I only share info what I got, until they don't finish the web site and forum online, some things are not clear
Quote from: fulrmr on January 29, 2015, 04:45:11 PM
"later" could also be very subjective...and possibly mean "never". ::)
A bit harsh, I think! This is in response to a company that didn't even exist a year ago.
Quote from: digitalDrummer on January 29, 2015, 10:31:43 PM
This is in response to a company that didn't even exist a year ago.
Exactly. However, you know as well I do that there have been hundreds of companies in the past that promise the moon and deliver a less than impressive slice of cheese or nothing at all. So pardon me if I state a possible outcome based in reality. ::) I hope I'm wrong. There's potential there..lets see if they live up to their hype. Playing the kit a bit instead of babbling about it's supposed features would be a good start.
I'm one of the guys that brought the topic here. I have no reason to bash NFUZD because I'm glad there is a newcomer. Just that makes 2Box more established than before and I just don't like bashing (some Dutch guys still bash on 2Box ... yes, I mean you, you sneaky anonymous XXL dude).
It is very honest from FXpansion to admit that protecting the VST-products is very important for them and an important parameter in the design.
What puzzles me is the marketing strategy. Starters go for 500 - 1000 dollar models, advanced for 1000 - 2000 dollar models and the experienced drummers for 2000 dollar and beyond. You might expect advanced drummers want better sounds and that is where NFUZD comes in. But can they please those drummers with this kit? Time will tell. The other backdrop is that the DIY population cannot work with the module and kit because of the proprietary design, so it seems.
Food for thought but all together I'm pleased there is a new kit on the block. :)
Maybe they plan to release a more high end module in the future , with more layers ....
Quote from: edtc on January 30, 2015, 05:00:25 PM
Maybe they plan to release a more high end module in the future , with more layers ....
We will see ... What a terrible avatar you have ðŸ˜
Interesting post by chris k on vdrums stating that this module will be able to use any VST samples converted with SDSE. This changes things just a bit (as in more customers for Lustar which is way cool) :rock: but 8 samples still limits these expansive libraries. Meh...still better than Roland sounds though. ;)
Quote from: fulrmr on February 02, 2015, 05:37:07 AM
Interesting post by chris k on vdrums stating that this module will be able to use any VST samples converted with SDSE. This changes things just a bit (as in more customers for Lustar which is way cool) :rock: but 8 samples still limits these expansive libraries. Meh...still better than Roland sounds though. ;)
That will not solve their DRM issue??
Quote from: Murgen on February 02, 2015, 08:05:13 AM
That will not solve their DRM issue??
Yeah.... Go figure. ::) and it never will. ;)
BFD3 can load any .wav samples. So, theoretically, if you can produce DSNDs, you can extract .wav files from them and import into BFD3. I think that's what he means.
With SDSE you can export WAVs instead of dsnds if you want.
Quote from: Jman on February 03, 2015, 03:06:44 AM
With SDSE you can export WAVs instead of dsnds if you want.
I think Lustar is in business but it will not solve their DRM fear, unless the 8 layer limitation is as designed ...
New info, the module at Namm did not have the latest firmware which have some "synth" feature to reduce machine gunning etc.The current module existing arch supports up to 4GB RAM, now it is fixed to 512mb, not populated for the release, they will be larger module later which support much more layers and up to 4gig memory.
I would have been impressed if they implemented it with Wifi and 128 MB SSD but they came up with 4 GB and USB ...
Just to be clear, I asked at the NAMM show more than once about the specs and regardless of what may or may not happen on future modules I was told this kit will ship with 512MB and 8 layers as the limit.
Quote from: Jman on February 07, 2015, 04:43:10 PM
Just to be clear, I asked at the NAMM show more than once about the specs and regardless of what may or may not happen on future modules I was told this kit will ship with 512MB and 8 layers as the limit.
I'm sure all companies have "future plans" for their product. Whether it has a future has yet to be determined though.
I imagine getting a new product like this off the ground is a great undertaking Everything is a gamble but sometimes it's better to gamble a bit and jump in with both feet rather than "test" the water. Many good ideas and products fail because of releasing a "dressed down version" of their genius instead of the "full monty" and the "too little too late" perception and expectation from consumers keeps them from gaining any future ground.
They have a better product than some others. But that only helps if they have unlimited or lots of venture capital....and patience. Only time will tell for sure though.
Quote from: fulrmr on February 07, 2015, 06:09:39 PM
I'm sure all companies have "future plans" for their product. Whether it has a future has yet to be determined though.
I imagine getting a new product like this off the ground is a great undertaking Everything is a gamble but sometimes it's better to gamble a bit and jump in with both feet rather than "test" the water. Many good ideas and products fail because of releasing a "dressed down version" of their genius instead of the "full monty" and the "too little too late" perception and expectation from consumers keeps them from gaining any future ground.
They have a better product than some others. But that only helps if they have unlimited or lots of venture capital....and patience. Only time will tell for sure though.
Actually think it's a bright decision to start with one mid\low price with the Capital they have (owned by KHS Musical Instruments LTD Trademarks ) https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/...s-ltd-2394492/, for them it's nothing really to be worried, I talked to 2 local store and most sales on Roland was the td-11\ td-15, because of the price tag, and way lowers sales td-30, the Yamaha DTX500 range and dtx700 range came after, 2box was not selling much because what it's projecting at the first look overall and the hardware, they removed from the floor, some buying the module only, I think most sale on 2box are online.
Honestly I rarely saw any company that made Edrum with only one model and live 8 or 10 years with it, unless there is no more developer or are gone, I don't think you can survive and hope future development this way, you need to refresh with new things, and get noticed on the market everywhere, this is what Alesis, Roland, Yamaha are doing since day 1 and it works, low\mid\high range, each new model released, the older one get outdated, end up on ebay, and bought new model, company still developing with new income etc.
They definitively enter on competition with Roland\ Yamaha with this module, and think later, Skot told me there is developing going, the existing architecture supports up to 4GB RAM, but this module on the first kit is fixed to 512MB and 8 layers, larger memory unit on the roadmap.
Quote from: chris k on February 07, 2015, 08:41:02 PM
Actually think it's a bright decision to start with one mid\low price with the Capital they have (owned by KHS Musical Instruments LTD Trademarks ) https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/...s-ltd-2394492/, for them it's nothing really to be worried, I talked to 2 local store and most sales on Roland was the td-11\ td-15, because of the price tag, and way lowers sales td-30, the Yamaha DTX500 range and dtx700 range came after, 2box was not selling much because what it's projecting at the first look overall and the hardware, they removed from the floor, some buying the module only, I think most sale on 2box are online.
Honestly I rarely saw any company that made Edrum with only one model and live 8 or 10 years with it, unless there is no more developer or are gone, I don't think you can survive and hope future development this way, you need to refresh with new things, and get noticed on the market everywhere, this is what Alesis, Roland, Yamaha are doing since day 1 and it works, low\mid\high range, each new model released, the older one get outdated, end up on ebay, and bought new model, company still developing with new income etc.
They definitively enter on competition with Roland\ Yamaha with this module, and think later, Skot told me there is developing going, the existing architecture supports up to 4GB RAM, but this module on the first kit is fixed to 512MB and 8 layers, larger memory unit on the roadmap.
Hey, I wish you the best with the NFUZD. Hope it really works out for you. But honestly the 2Box module as you point out being so old still beats the crap out of every single module on your list and is far superior at this point to the NFUZD IMO. And it's roots goes back to DDrum that was also ahead of the times. If people prefer other drums/hardware to go with it there are choices because of how compatible it is. If you look at Yamaha compatible pads for DTX modules you will find a short list, and that is generally just Yamaha products. Even if NFUZD releases an adapter for their 1/8" 4 ring jacks I think you will find that it will be similar to Yamaha in that if you want the pads that offer all the features you will need the NFUZD pads. John already told me that the NFUZD module is set up on different voltage/resistance than for instance Yamaha .... so I doubt you will even get a 3 zone result on a 3 zone Yamaha pad/cymbal with the NFUZD module.
Just my opinion here obviously ..... but to me it is like trying to get me excited about driving a VW Beetle when I am already cruising in a Porsche.
Quote from: Jman on February 07, 2015, 11:49:17 PM
Hey, I wish you the best with the NFUZD. Hope it really works out for you. But honestly the 2Box module as you point out being so old still beats the crap out of every single module on your list and is far superior at this point to the NFUZD IMO. And it's roots goes back to DDrum that was also ahead of the times. If people prefer other drums/hardware to go with it there are choices because of how compatible it is. If you look at Yamaha compatible pads for DTX modules you will find a short list, and that is generally just Yamaha products. Even if NFUZD releases an adapter for their 1/8" 4 ring jacks I think you will find that it will be similar to Yamaha in that if you want the pads that offer all the features you will need the NFUZD pads. John already told me that the NFUZD module is set up on different voltage/resistance than for instance Yamaha .... so I doubt you will even get a 3 zone result on a 3 zone Yamaha pad/cymbal with the NFUZD module.
Just my opinion here obviously ..... but to me it is like trying to get me excited about driving a VW Beetle when I am already cruising in a Porsche.
Hi,
I was not referring to 2box as outdated, my main concern is until there is not enough companies that do VST compatible module with constant development module, they will be squashed on the background, and Alesis\Yamaha\Roland etc will still doing their stuff and get the upfront on store\ online, the development on the VST side will still be hiding and slower for module, with 2box and now Nspire, and soon the Kat with BFD, things can start to change and get more talked around, for the price tag and feature compare to the others side Alesis\Yamaha\Roland, there is nothing to compare for the sound, even if I did not tried, I know Npsire ( the one even from Kat\bfd) will sound better overall then Yamaha\Roland\Alesis at a very good price, right now I use VST with td-15 on Midi, I am waiting on new alternative not really Npsire, but from what they said, they will continue development and this is only good to force others to change, I am looking more like 2box but a "new improved version" on the market, whatever which companies will do NSpire or others etc, hopefully something are in the works, like we heard from dev or others.
If Roland\ Yamaha will start this, and I will not be surprised someday, now we are in business, things will really get improved and really fast in Sample\VST or wav import\ layers module on the entire Edrum market, new innovation we never thought about it, we will all win here.
Quote from: chris k on February 08, 2015, 04:31:56 AM
Hi,
I was not referring to 2box as outdated, my main concern is until there is not enough companies that do VST compatible module with constant development module, they will be squashed on the background, and Alesis\Yamaha\Roland etc will still doing their stuff and get the upfront on store\ online, the development on the VST side will still be hiding and slower for module, with 2box and now Nspire, and soon the Kat with BFD, things can start to change and get more talked around, for the price tag and feature compare to the others side Alesis\Yamaha\Roland, there is nothing to compare for the sound, even if I did not tried, I know Npsire ( the one even from Kat\bfd) will sound better overall then Yamaha\Roland\Alesis at a very good price, right now I use VST with td-15 on Midi, I am waiting on new alternative not really Npsire, but from what they said, they will continue development and this is only good to force others to change, I am looking more like 2box but a "new improved version" on the market, whatever which companies will do NSpire or others etc, hopefully something are in the works, like we heard from dev or others.
If Roland\ Yamaha will start this, and I will not be surprised someday, now we are in business, things will really get improved and really fast in Sample\VST or wav import\ layers module on the entire Edrum market, new innovation we never thought about it, we will all win here.
Sorry that I misunderstood. I think we will see things moving more in the sample based module direction. But we'll just have to see where it goes. It is good to see the progress in Edum systems in general. For so many years we were at the mercy of just a couple companies with a corner on the market and deciding whatever improvements they thought we should have. Edrums are in pretty much every music store now and we are starting to see more ideas/advancements from new companies. A good thing, IMO.