Toontrack Official response: 2Box: using Toontrack samples in the 2Box module

[Jman]

I forwarded this info to UC. Thought I would post this here. There was a pretty lengthy discussion on another forum (heated at times I must confess ) about using Toontrack samples to build dsnds for the 2Box DrumIt Five module. I received the official heads up from Chris Whitten today in a PM. So, as it concerns us here in particular I thought I would post it:



"Official response posted on Toontrack forum:


It has come to our attention that some of our customers are concerned about the legality of extracting Toontrack's samples and load them into E-drum brains. Therefore, we would like to take this opportunity to clarify our standpoint.

We create our products with the specific goal of enhancing the music-creating process. We offer our products to our customers with the hopes that our products will spark creativity and open up new possibilities. Therefore, please, go ahead and use our software, use our samples, and compose some amazing music and give some mind-blowing performances. That is what our products are there to do. We believe that taking samples from our software library and load them into E-drum brains would constitute the modification and creation of derivative works based on the product as a whole or in part as stated in our EULA. However, at this time we have decided to waive any objection we may have to this practice so long as it is limited to a single customer, owning the product that the samples are taken from and downloading clips into E-drum brains he or she may own. We may in the future decide otherwise, in which case we will disseminate a notice to our customers. We further ask that you respect the considerable time and effort taken in creating all our products, and refrain from taking samples from our library and disseminating these samples to other musicians and individuals.

Thank you for your support!
Toontrack Music"

It is clear above that one of the main concerns, if not The Main Concern is that Toontrack products/samples or Toontrack sample based dsnds do not get shared or passed along to others. And that is something I would also stress. Jerry

[Manfred]

Hi Jman,

in my opinion these are not really good news. He confirmed that it is against the EULA to use the sound in an edrum module. He only wrote that they waive any objection for the time being. But announced also that this might be different in the future. So buying Toontrack software to use it inside the 2Box brain is a really uncertain investment. Who wants to pay hundreds of Euros/Dollars even though it is still illegal to use the software one paid for? Somehow ridiculous!!

I bought SD2.0, Metal Foundry SDX and The Classic EZX but reading this statement i regret this buying.

Regards, Manfred

[GenuineHuman]

It's definetly not good news from this perspective but as I see it making any other decision as waiwing any objection would not be a smart decision at this point. I think it's good that they are aware of this issue and it would be smart to actually release a product that can be used inside e-drum brain. I'm ready to bet someone elses money that they (either as Toontrack or under a different brand name) will soon release a 2Box expansion pack.

[Baby Samus]

I fail to see how this is bad news at all.  Toontrack have officially stated that they do not mind customers doing this, as long as they own the software.

We believe that taking samples from our software library and load them into E-drum brains would constitute the modification and creation of derivative works based on the product as a whole or in part as stated in our EULA. However, at this time we have decided to waive any objection we may have to this practice so long as it is limited to a single customer, owning the product that the samples are taken from and downloading clips into E-drum brains he or she may own.

The statement you are probably worrying about is:

We may in the future decide otherwise, in which case we will disseminate a notice to our customers. We further ask that you respect the considerable time and effort taken in creating all our products, and refrain from taking samples from our library and disseminating these samples to other musicians and individuals.

I see this as Toontrack simply covering their bases.  All companies can change their software/service agreements as long as they give you notice, and I think Toontrack are simply making it clear that they reserve the right to take action in the future.  This is normal behaviour for any company, and is certainly not indicitive of an intention on Toontrack's part to stop us making .dsnd files any time soon.

As I said in an earlier post:

At the same time, I don't think Superior would pursue a small community of 2Boxer's because they are triggering their software and samples in a different way than usual - I'm sure they are just happy another person has bought an SD 2 licence!

In other words, companies like Toontrack and BFD etc are well aware people pirate their software and don't pay a penny, which makes those who pay for a licence a valued customer, regardless of how they use that software.

It makes no commericial sense for them to pursue people who have actually bought licences, they have enough on their plate trying to stop the real pirates.  So stop worrying, go make samples.  This is good news!

[rythm]

It's definetly not good news from this perspective but as I see it making any other decision as waiwing any objection would not be a smart decision at this point. I think it's good that they are aware of this issue and it would be smart to actually release a product that can be used inside e-drum brain. I'm ready to bet someone elses money that they (either as Toontrack or under a different brand name) will soon release a 2Box expansion pack.

I hope the same thing, would certainly be good news to a lot of us. Seems strange to me this hasnĀ“t already happen. Just look at the expansions packs available for Roland users, for a reasonable price...

[twisted.mellow]

The "expansion packs" available for the Rolands are not using anyone's samples - they are "remixes" of sounds already on board. Therefore there is little legality issue, and they have Roland's permission regardless.

[digitalDrummer]

I think this is all about licence control. On another forums, one of the VST vendors was asked about selling individual kit pieces and he argued that licence control was the major issue - it's not worthwhile issuing licences for individual pieces as the software will get so bogged down in checking at start-up.
For the  VST companies, once the samples have been converted to wav files and imported into modules, there's no way of controlling them - or their sharing.
But, to our advantage, I suspect edrumming is only a small fraction of the total market, so the efforts involved in policing will not really be justified - and it will be hard for Toontrack to clamp down on something it openly condoned.
We can only hope that all of this discussion has helped the move towards the VST companies producing 2box-friendly patches, the way they have done for Pearl. But it obviously takes critical mass to justify the investment. No doubt, Pearl had great hopes for ePro and went to the VST companies with big market predictions.

[Jman]

Hi Manfred. I don't see much risk in this. 1st off there is nothing illegal involved whether they waived the Eula or not. The only thing concerning the Eula is product support, Period. If they thought someone was breaking the EULA agreement they "could" deny product support. Pretty silly to make a big deal about whether the samples are being played from within a computer or from within a sampler or drum module IMO. But like others mentioned they covered their bases.

The biggest concern over this whole thing is people pirating the software in another way through the sample WAVS or sample based dsnds.

Honestly, if they hadn't waived that EULA (interpretation) I would be telling everyone I converse with to avoid Toontrack products and just go with FXpansion or other VST products. But they wisely, at least IMO have given us the GREEN LIGHT. I love the drum sounds I am building for my module with SD 2.0 and have already purchased almost every other SD 2.0 expansion .... Don't regret a penny spent so far .... If you ask me it's a Win Win situation I would say ..... they sell more products to us 2Boxers and those of us that want to go this route get some Killer sounding drum kits with no real latency problems from a plug n play electronic drum module. There is some time and effort involved to build these dsnds, but it is a well rewarded effort IMO. J

Oh and since EZX expansions work with SD 2.0 and those are on sale right now for $39 or so .... looks like the Latin Percussion expansion is next up for me